The Saturday Five : GBN : April 13, 2024 6:00pm-8:01pm BST : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2024)

by by abby or charlie is as pristine as the betting slip you just know is going to win it big at aintree today. then we've got benjamin butterworth, britain's wokeist non—gender aligned person . today he's here to get person. today he's here to get your blood pressure galloping through the wahaca and walkerl alone. then there's ben leo. alone. and then there's ben leo. he have time for any he doesn't have time for any trap texts, horses or pretty much else . he's much anything else. he's presenting duties take up all his he's on gb news his time. he's on eight gb news shows day. he's a man who shows a day. he's a man who makes a marathon look like a

sprint. rounding our sprint. and rounding off our panel brilliant champion panel is the brilliant champion breed commentator breed political commentator emma webb, who's here to ensure these beasts stay on track and clear those hurdles without so much as a hoot out of line. and trust me, she knows how to crack the whip and keep the race running without false starts. without any false starts. all right, hold on to your hats. it's going to be one heck of a gallop. and with a line up like this, who needs the grand national as ever? send your views and post your comments by visiting gb news. com for accuracy, albie , what have you accuracy, albie, what have you got? >> first of all, well, do we want meghan and harry to come back to the united kingdom? i might after the latest climate change ruling, we need to leave the echr right now because it's a threat to democracy and we need the bank holiday, we need gb news, we need to actually

celebrate saint george's day for bank holiday. >> we need a bank holiday 0 britain heister's leave the grand national alone and horse racing. >> stop trying to attack everything that's great about this country. >> and will boycotting baby wipes peace. wipes give us world peace. >> right . now it's wipes give us world peace. >> right. now it's time for >> all right. now it's time for your saturday night news with aaron armstrong. before get aaron armstrong. before we get into it . into it. >> a very good evening to you. it is 6:02. let's get you up to date with all the headlines from the gb newsroom . we do start the gb newsroom. we do start with the story in australia . the with the story in australia. the australian prime minister anthony albanese, has praised first responders and members of the public and all those who responded to the attack in sydney earlier today , the sydney earlier today, the attacker, you can see being confronted on the steps by, by a member of the public. it was

eventually apprehended and shot dead by police, police say they think his motive was not terror related. a nine month old baby is in critical condition. the child's mother has died in hospital. anthony albanese has praised everyone's bravery today. >> bondi junction was the scene of shocking violence, but it was also witness to the humanity and the heroism of our fellow australians, our brave police, our first responders and of course, everyday people who could never have imagined that they would face such a moment. and some of the footage is quite extraordinary . extraordinary. >> indian special forces have seized a container ship in 25 crew members off the coast of the united arab emirates . the the united arab emirates. the vessel, which has links to israel, was passing through the strait hormuz . israel, was passing through the strait hormuz. it amid strait of hormuz. it comes amid rising the region, rising tensions in the region, with warning an iranian with the us warning an iranian attack on israel was likely to happen sooner rather than later. iran has vowed retaliate for

iran has vowed to retaliate for an airstrike on its consulate in syria almost two weeks ago, which killed a number of senior officers. president biden has said he expects the attack to happen sooner rather than later. meanwhile, president biden is closing the gap on donald trump, according to a new poll highlighting how close november's presidential election could the poll , by the new could be. the poll, by the new york times and siena college found 45% say they'd vote for mr biden, compared to 46 for mr trump. it means they're now virtually tied with joe biden's standing amongst democratic voters, improving . greater voters, improving. greater manchester police say they have found what they believe to be the human remains of a young babyin the human remains of a young baby in wigan. five people have been arrested on suspicion of concealing a death and unlawful burial. the group, aged between 20 now been bailed . 20 and 70, have now been bailed. officials in turkey have ordered the detention of 13 people after yesterday's deadly cable car collision. one person was killed

and ten others injured when the cable car collided with a broken pole , ripping the port open and pole, ripping the port open and sending people inside plummeting to the rocks below. 174 passengers were rescued during a massive 23 hour operation, and involved ten helicopters and more than 600 rescue workers . more than 600 rescue workers. the chancellor says he's ready to cut taxes and bet on growth after the economy grew by 0.1% in february. the office for national statistics has also revised january's figures, pushing it to nought point 3. while writing in the daily express, jeremy hunt says britain has done the hard years and the economy is bouncing back. but labour says most people aren't feeling the benefit, with low growth and high taxes under the conservative government the chief executive of nhs england has called out what she has called unacceptable abusive behaviour that doctors and nurses are facing at work. amanda pritchard says the health service needs to stamp out abusive behaviour and shouldn't

be exempt from its own me too moment . according to a major moment. according to a major survey, there were 80,000 reports of nhs staff in england being sexually harassed while at work last year. reports were more prevalent among ambulance staff, nursing staff and healthcare assistants . i am healthcare assistants. i am maximus has won the grand national at aintree after changes to safety rules saw the highest number of horses crossed the finish line since 1992. the 7 to 1 joint favourite, i am maximus, romped home by several lengths to give jockey paul townsend his first national win and trainer willie mullins his second at 21 of the 32 runners, finished the race, with all horses returning safely , and it horses returning safely, and it seems like things are heating up in northern spain after a record breaking hot spell. parts of the galicia region and the canary islands have been hit with temperatures above 30 degrees. tenerife, south airport even surpassed its record for april, reaching 38.2 degrees this week.

the hot conditions have brought about an early summer as locals head to the beach to cool off the warmer weather, expected to last all weekend . for the latest last all weekend. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to our website for more details. now back to the saturday five. >> she has very much. aaron. it's saturday night, folks, and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're in for a very lively two hours. let's crack on with tonight's first debate. who's going to kick us off, me. i will bolt out the stable door. darren. and why not? let's talk about the grand national. of course it took place. what about two hours ago? i am maximus, as aaron just said, romps home to win. but one thing that's really missed me this week is the protest and the objection to race even objection to the race even taking place all. lots of taking place at all. lots of animal rights protesters saying that cruel. well, what

that it's very cruel. well, what happened today, guys? no deaths in grand national itself. so in the grand national itself. so they've in recent they've made efforts in recent years make the race for years to make the race safer for horses. they've reduced the size of fences, they've changed of the fences, they've changed the fences. and the material in the fences. and of today there was fewer of course, today there was fewer runners seems to runners as well. it seems to have worked. and my only problem is, despite that, despite no horses today, we're still horses dying today, we're still getting lefty woke getting all the lefty woke animal rights protesters saying that we need to cancel the race. i think, guys, darren, don't you agree with me that in the same theme and vibe as the attacks on theme and vibe as the attacks on the family, it's just the royal family, it's just another of trying to erode another way of trying to erode british culture. get rid of everything that's original and great about the country by people who frankly hate the country . country. >> well, yes. so we're looking at one now. but look, i don't i think this is all a total nonsense. >> it comes around every single yeah >> it comes around every single year. right. it's as predictable as people saying saint george wasn't english right. as people saying saint george wasn't english right . and we'll wasn't english right. and we'll get more of that later. no, he wasn't he turkish. they say oh, that's what they always say. yeah. and, i find this whole

thing absolutely preposterous. and i just think it's another sign of seeking to sign of people seeking to destroy denigrate things destroy and denigrate things that really quite important that are really quite important to actually, i think to us. and actually, i think there's more british there's nothing more british than the scenes we yesterday than the scenes we saw yesterday where everyone was up clearly, absolutely and absolutely mortal, drunk and going each other. what could going for each other. what could be more fights? >> you mean you're talking about the fights outside? >> mean, the great british brawl. >> is that what britishness is about? i'm slightly facetious. race. >> you know, i think it was outside. i think that was inside. >> massive brawls, you know , >> massive brawls, you know, drunk people everywhere. you know, i think of britain as being better than that. and i think these animal rights activists think britain as activists think of britain as being than a country being better than a country which tolerates cruelty. which tolerates animal cruelty. now personally, personally, now i personally, i personally, i particularly care about i don't particularly care about the horse racing. i think, you know, it's quite fun to watch. i've been to ascot, i quite enjoy it, but there's nothing anti—british about people who want better animal rights. is there ? we all love our pets. we there? we all love our pets. we all love our dogs. horses are. we all love our horses.

>> yeah, those things are not incompatible. i mean, nobody loves than horse loves horses more than horse owners horse riders, and owners and horse riders, and those in the those who are involved in the races. do live like kings. races. they do live like kings. i mean, horses are fed on i mean, these horses are fed on a diet that most human beings would envy in terms of how sort of they are. they supercars , of they are. they are supercars, they athletes at the top of they are athletes at the top of their and anybody who has their game, and anybody who has worked with horses or ridden horses knows that they love to run, they love to run , and they run, they love to run, and they love to jump. it's anti—british because the grand national is an institution and one of my one of my most cherished memories of my grandad alf was that he would used he used to lean forward in his armchair and ride the invisible horse because he was that national. that into the grand national. it's we it's important that we keep these traditions going . i these traditions going. i actually the same actually think it's the same with hunting, because we've with fox hunting, because we've seen fox seen attacks similarly on fox hunting, even though the fox killing has been removed , killing part has been removed, it's hunting. now it's now trail hunting. now we've grand national we've seen the grand national has made safer. the has been made much safer. the horses less likely to horses are much less likely to suffer injuries . and actually, suffer injuries. and actually, do want to the sort of do we want to be the sort of country that doesn't take risks?

i mean, all sports incur risks. the jockeys are at risk as much as the horses are . and it's the as the horses are. and it's the same, like i say, with fox hunting, where that risk or that the original objection has been eliminated, but they just won't stop because what they want to do is attack british culture. it's not about animal rights. >> remember that >> and leo, i remember that benjamin butterworth, one of benjamin butterworth, on one of his fuel induced his many fossil fuel induced holidays . you were on a horse. holidays. you were on a horse. was that animal cruelty? no throughout the desert. it must have been gasping for a drink . have been gasping for a drink. >> i think i was i was in the middle east. yes. i didn't mean with benjamin swig . with benjamin swig. >> you calling benjamin fat ? >> you calling benjamin fat? >> you calling benjamin fat? >> fun fact of being in the desert. i mean, we're 11 minutes into the show and you've called me fat already. >> look, it's good to see you for grand national day. wearing a fancy with a horse a very fancy shirt with a horse logo it. your working class logo on it. your working class credentials continue shine credentials continue to shine through. credentials continue to shine thr(doesn't the difference >> doesn't know the difference between grand national and between the grand national and polo. love horse riding. >> when i'm on holiday. it's not something that i've done

something that i've really done at home. fact, as a kid, at home. in fact, as a kid, i was terrified of horses. and i do have friends who have criticised me for riding horses on holiday. really? yeah. but of course, doing extremely course, i'm doing an extremely being friends people like being friends with people like that. doing in that. i'm doing it in an extremely sure extremely casual way. i'm sure it's of no harm to horses. it's of no harm to the horses. and say, when i was and i have to say, when i was riding in, in petra in jordan, the horses looked very healthy and i wouldn't have got on them if didn't. and i wouldn't have got on them if thedidn't.was called petra. >> the horse was called petra. >> the horse was called petra. >> the area called >> no, the area was called petra. oh, i do think that petra. oh, but i do think that thatis petra. oh, but i do think that that is very different, that kind horse riding, kind of casual horse riding, which is perfectly healthy. i think is quite different to something grand something like the grand national, that national, the argument that because it's british, because we should, it's british, so who cares if these animals are severely hurt and sometimes killed? well, by that logic, why don't we throw kids the this don't we throw kids in the this is nonsense. is total nonsense. >> horses are looked after >> these horses are looked after better horse petra better than any horse in petra or wherever. better than any horse in petra or \in arever. better than any horse in petra or \in some i better than any horse in petra or\in some i forget. better than any horse in petra or \in some i forget. was it >> in some i forget. was it yemen, jordan? jordan, do you really do really think really care? do you really think that the horses in jordan are treated than the horses treated better than the horses at the grand national? >> i think you're verging on racism there. >> no , i think i do not.

>> no, i think i do not. >> no, i think i do not. >> you're talking about the difference between horses in the desert. talking desert. you're talking about horses used tourists horses that are used by tourists versus horses that are pro athletes. course, they're athletes. of course, they're taken better. >> this isn't the question. the question is, is the way those horses are used. we know horses are used. and we know that after year there are that year after year there are horses that die at the grand national and other races like it i >> -- >> they've made it safer. >> they've made it safer. >> today is an exception, a very unusual occasion where they didn't sport that kills didn't die. any sport that kills off people competing is not off the people competing is not acceptable. if you were getting 100m and every few years, you know, kenyan runner dropped know, some kenyan runner dropped dead, i think we'd say, oh, we probably shouldn't have them. >> tell you something. as >> let me tell you something. as someone knows lot about someone who knows a lot about sport than you, the way, sport more than you, by the way, formula drivers have died formula one drivers have died across in the name of across the years in the name of the sport. horses die in the name the they love. name of the sport they love. people are running marathons, have the they have died doing the sport they love. if love. life comes with risk if you eliminate. love. life comes with risk if you butninate. love. life comes with risk if you but the |te. love. life comes with risk if you but the horse doesn't have >> but the horse doesn't have any that's the point. >> yes they do. lewis hamilton chooses to get into a race so the horses. >> if a horse doesn't want to run, it won't run. what did i

say ? say? >> hang hang on, hang on. >> hang on, hang on, hang on. >> hang on, hang on, hang on. >> horse say? >> what did the horse say? >> what did the horse say? >> so you're telling >> ben. leo. so you're telling me aintree, go up to the me at aintree, they go up to the horses and they say, all right, charlie, would you like to race today? and horse and the today? and the horse and the horse says, yes, horse responds and says, yes, i'd to. i'd love to. >> you. you clearly know >> thank you. you clearly know very little about horses. is that after. yes, that what happened after. yes, after show. google a horse after the show. google a horse called watson. mad a called watson. mad moose, a great character the years. great character over the years. could moose? great character over the years. couthat's moose? great character over the years. couthat's what moose? great character over the years. couthat's what i moose? great character over the years. couthat's what i m> that's what i call you. >> that's what i call you. >> he became famous for digging his in at start of his heels in at the start of races. the flag would go down or they to flat racing. they moved him to flat racing. in end, come out the in the end, he'd come out the gates he'd refuse to race gates and he'd refuse to race because he didn't want to it. because he didn't want to do it. horses stupid. they horses aren't stupid. they love racing. to race. racing. they're bred to race. they're thoroughbreds. and frankly, if wasn't for frankly, if it wasn't for racing, they wouldn't be here in the place. actually, the first place. and actually, they've chance of dying they've got more chance of dying in field or paddock. in their field or their paddock. like favourite horses like one of my favourite horses of time did. he running of all time did. he was running around his paddock. kauto star, around his paddock. kauto star, a horse. a lot the a very great horse. a lot of the viewers will probably who viewers will probably know who he doing what he did he is. he died doing what he did at home his field jumping. at home in his field jumping. >> think acceptable to at home in his field jumping. >> animals< acceptable to at home in his field jumping. >> animals so acceptable to at home in his field jumping. >> animals so you:ceptable to at home in his field jumping. >> animals so you:cepthave to

kill animals so you can have a couple of beers and cheer along at is nonsense. >> this is nonsense. >> this is nonsense. >> is what you're saying. >> this is what you're saying. >> this is what you're saying. >> sorry, but i'm >> i'm sorry, but i'm. i'm a horsey girl, love horses, i've horsey girl, i love horses, i've ndden horsey girl, i love horses, i've ridden most my and ridden for most of my life, and i just think the way that you're talking about this is will be talking about this is so will be so to the ears of so nonsensical to the ears of anybody was and worked anybody who was known and worked with, so you with, with horses. so you because should lie? because the horses should lie? no, a race that generates no, i mean a race that generates a is an excuse to a bit of money is an excuse to have a couple nonsense have a couple of nonsense hyperbole. straw hyperbole. you're making a straw man hyperbole. man out of not hyperbole. >> routinely these. >> they die routinely in these. >> they die routinely in these. >> have changes the >> they have made changes to the grand national to make it safer for the horses and riders. hang on. i am in favour. as a horse lover, i am in favour. if you let me finish my point, i am in favour of animal rights. i am in favour of animal rights. i am in favour of animal welfare and taking measures to make things safer for the animals of course i am. i love horses, i love animals, but the idea that simply taking part in the sport steeplechasing fox hunting, the grand national show, jumping, the idea that that is animal cruelty is nonsense. it's benjamin, it's nonsense.

>> you say that it's okay because none died today. but of course you supported this when several died each year in the grand national, didn't you? >> if you got that on record, let me tell you something, i support them. >> them making it safer. >> but yes, i'm. i'm in support of grand national in of the grand national in general. yes. >> where they killed >> those races where they killed the and yet, in the same the horses. and yet, in the same breath, came claim to breath, you came to claim to care because care about this nonsense because i've never commented on the grand national. i've never commented on the granijust tional. i've never commented on the granijust asked you and now >> i just asked you and now we're talking about it. and they have safer for the have made it safer for the horses. i think that's a horses. and i think that's a good thing. no horses died this yeah year. there is. there is no reason are reason why these sports are inherently hurdle. ama inherently first hurdle. ama anti anti—animal. >> right, stop >> all right, all right. stop horsing about still to come tonight. but don't bunch . is it tonight. but don't bunch. is it time to ditch the echr let us know you're with the saturday five live on

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. sit down in your saddle because someone is going next. who's it going to be? it's me. darren. what a treat . darren. oh, what a treat. >> this week we've seen the echr latest power grab in a case that was brought by a group of swiss elderly women. on the subject of climate change, the court has ruled that according to the right to life, the right to private life, and the right to family that governs , agents have family that governs, agents have to essentially go with net zero policies. and this is just the latest example. we can't deport migrants because of the rulings of the echr. and this is a straightforward attack on democracy. so i think that before this government is out, that the conservative government need to pull themselves together and take us out of the echr, because i think this is a serious threat to democracy. what do you think? >> i'm open to leaving the echr,

but people that are advocates of leaving the echr need to answer some pretty serious questions about some pretty serious problems. i'll start with two of them, the belfast good friday agreement, which of course is underpinned by the echr and also the eu, uk trade agreement, which is underpinned by the echr now you answer how we solve those problems and leave the echr, then we can have a conversation . but if you're just conversation. but if you're just going to sit here and say, oh, i don't like a ruling that the echr did, so we should leave without thinking about of without thinking about some of the then that's the consequences, then that's just serious proposal. the consequences, then that's just i serious proposal. the consequences, then that's just i think'ious proposal. the consequences, then that's just i think you proposal. the consequences, then that's just i think you haveosal. the consequences, then that's just i think you have tonl. the consequences, then that's just i think you have to look well, i think you have to look at it in the other direction that there consequences that there are consequences to this because is this ruling, because this is essentially legislation to essentially using legislation to promote a particular political ideology. >> and the argument that is often made by opponents of leaving the echr is that there will be some kind of, you know , will be some kind of, you know, we'll be like russia. russia is the only sorry, emma, but that's not my argument. no, no, no, i understand that. but if you i

understand that. but if you i understand specific things, i understand specific things, i understand that. but you let understand that. but if you let me finish if you let me finish my point, if you let me finish my point, if you let me finish my point, i'll come to that. me finish my point, i'll come to tha emma, that you're so rude. go >> emma, that you're so rude. go on then, benjamin , jump in on then, benjamin, jump in there. you got something to say? >> last 20 minutes. >> last 20 minutes. >> you are so rude. i know, i think i, i think is important think i, i think it is important to say that in this country, british rights have always been based on parliamentary judgement andifs based on parliamentary judgement and it's just it's just ignorant of british legal history to suggest that. >> and i'm not saying this is what you're doing, albie, but to suggest but to suggest we suggest but to suggest that we would suddenly not have those protections in law there would be not heard anything there would friday agreement. would be friday agreement. >> uk trade agree >> all the eu, uk trade agree there be. there would be. >> be ways in which >> there would be ways in which we can shore up those we can we can shore up those things. the is that things. but the reality is that you're the argument is you're saying the argument is that to the good that it's a threat to the good friday agreement. it's friday agreement. well, it's a threat of the threat to the whole of the united kingdom we stay in the united kingdom if we stay in the echr. more concerned that this >> i'm more concerned that this court officials court of unelected officials have climate change a have deemed climate change a 100% settled, nailed on thing,

when actually 99% of scientists, they say , agree, fine. there's they say, agree, fine. there's still 1. according to them, there's still 1% of people who are sceptical about the full impacts of climate change. exactly how much man has an impact on climate change, and also people that are concerned about the data set. we're deaung about the data set. we're dealing with data from , say, dealing with data from, say, i mean, some people are posting charts from a couple of hundred years. you do that on a chart for stock asset like for a stock or an asset like gold, and you take the one minute chart and say, oh, look, look line. it's gone up. minute chart and say, oh, look, lookjust line. it's gone up. minute chart and say, oh, look, lookjust you'd|e. it's gone up. minute chart and say, oh, look, lookjust you'd go it's gone up. minute chart and say, oh, look, lookjust you'd go broke ne up. you just you'd go broke immediately. i the fact immediately. so i mean, the fact that have said that that the court have said that climate completely man climate change is completely man made cyclical is, made and it's not cyclical is, i mean, disturbing for me mean, more disturbing for me than, know abby's than, you know what abby's talking about, saying that we're going break the belfast agreement. >> waiting. they're >> they're waiting. they're wading into a contentious political . and they were. political debate. and they were. and the judge was actually very clear that there's a conflict between and rights. between democracy and rights. and a conflict that and when there's a conflict that it's the echr that gets to decide, because, yeah , the swiss decide, because, yeah, the swiss had a referendum referendum. >> i don't think it's a

contentious political debate. i think it's that people think it's one that all people of minds have settled . i of sound minds have settled. i don't think we need not settled. i don't think need the i don't think we need the bitcoin bro. take on climate change trajectories. think the change trajectories. i think the scientists bit than scientists know a bit more than you. scientists know a bit more than youi also point out >> i would also point out scientists want to be scientists don't want to be defunded. would defunded. perhaps i would also point you talked about point out that you talked about unelected point out that you talked about unewell,i point out that you talked about unewell, none of our judges are >> well, none of our judges are elected, mate, would elected, mate, so that would make difference. make absolutely no difference. that's our legal and that's not how our legal and justice you justice system works. you know, it only 20 minutes ago it was only 15, 20 minutes ago when listening to the when we were listening to the headunes when we were listening to the headlines one the headlines. was that one of the main tonight is the main stories tonight is the record temperatures in spain and the canary islands, 38 degrees in spain. we looked at last year that hot ? it's very hot, not that hot? it's very hot, not very hot. >> but you know , spend the >> but you know, spend the summer benjamin or spain. >> why should this why should this be a matter of right rather than a matter of parliamentary and decision? do you and democratic decision? do you not trust the british people to make decisions, trust not trust the british people to makthe decisions, trust not trust the british people to makthe british decisions, trust not trust the british people to makthe british people ns, trust not trust the british people to makthe british people do trust me, the british people do not agree you. agree with you. >> people are >> the british people are overwhelmingly understanding it to referendum and to a referendum then, ben. and the echr the fact is that echr >> that's not true. >> that's not true. >> i'm talking about climate

change. is , when you change. the fact is, when you don't policies in place by don't have policies in place by governments to deal with this extreme temperatures , extreme rise in temperatures, the kind of consequences such as flooding we're getting in flooding that we're getting in extremes that we've not seen before, then you have scenarios where cannot leave where people cannot leave a bafic where people cannot leave a basic and that breach basic life, and that is a breach of the rights. of the human rights. >> i still am not clear how you that leave the echr want that want to leave the echr want to the problems that come to solve the problems that come up good friday up with the belfast good friday agreement the uk trade agreement and the eu uk trade agreement. agreements who agreement. both agreements who worked very hard to come to an agreement. >> is that down to us to sort out? >> well, i think you are >> well, i think if you are going to, if you are going to, yes, you're going to yes, i think if you're going to propose something like leaving the going the echr and say, oh, it's going to be easy, tell us how we're going to do it. >> said. it going to be >> he said. it was going to be easy. saying it's possible easy. we're saying it's possible and it's necessary for the people that sold. >> predates the >> your area predates the european predates the european union. it predates the echr. still had that after echr. we still had that after the echr because what? the echr because guess what? it's beyond wit of man it's not beyond the wit of man to a court to get together with a court system as ours. going system as robust as ours. going back a thousand years all the way carta, and be way to the magna carta, and be able sort these issues out, able to sort these issues out, the belfast agreement didn't

bnng the belfast agreement didn't bring peace on island bring about peace on the island of ireland. defeating the ira brought about peace on the island ireland. brought about peace on the islawe ireland. brought about peace on the islawe shouldnd. brought about peace on the islawe should just do with >> we should just do away with the good agreement the good friday agreement >> well, actually, would argue >> well, actually, i would argue that yes darren that we should. yes darren grimes, yes i do. >> think we should get rid >> you think we should get rid of agreement? of the good friday agreement? >> did you mean to >> i think it's did you mean to say that? >> i did, why? >> yes, i did, why? >> yes, i did, why? >> think it's a menace. that >> i think it's a menace. that is ensuring unionism in is ensuring that unionism in northern ireland under threat northern ireland is under threat and we have. how and that we have. how is it under threat of the under threat because of the windsor framework, that your favourite man, sunak favourite man, rishi sunak signed did the signed and sorry, did the windsor framework not happen because people argued windsor framework not happen becbrexit people argued windsor framework not happen becbrexit did)eople argued windsor framework not happen becbrexit did not le argued windsor framework not happen becbrexit did not considerrgued for brexit did not consider northern ireland at all? >> of course a little bit, a little bit campaign little, a little bit campaign little, a little bit. >> your historical inaccuracy a little bit like people are arguing in favour of the leaving the echr aren't thinking about northern ireland. >> is a complete red >> this is a complete red herring because there's no there's reason why climate herring because there's no there's should on why climate herring because there's no there's should be why climate herring because there's no there's should be a1y climate herring because there's no there's should be a matterate herring because there's no there's should be a matter of change should be a matter of rights. why should this be a matter of the echr to decide? and there is also, and there is also humans existence to have a safe and secure. >> this is nonsense.

>> this is nonsense. >> do you know what undermines my to extreme flooding my right to the extreme flooding in bangladesh? >> that wiped out a third of the country for part of last year, is wiping out their human rights? know why ? when rights? do you know why? when you at the extreme flooding you look at the extreme flooding in is nhs about in germany, so is the nhs about human rights? >> is the waiting list about >> is the nhs waiting list about human where do stop? human rights? where do we stop? do let courts decide do we just let courts decide everything do away with everything and just do away with democracy , deciding what rights democracy, deciding what rights are? >> i trust the electorate opinions and what i would say is that where are the rights of those have been those girls who have been sexually indeed raped sexually abused or indeed raped in country by people in this country by people that we deport of your we can't deport because of your favoured foreign court? i think you're disgrace make favoured foreign court? i think you'iargument,disgrace make favoured foreign court? i think you'iargument,disgrace yourake favoured foreign court? i think you'iargument,disgrace you know that argument, because you know for not keeping for a fact we are not keeping women girls safe in this. for a fact we are not keeping wonshow girls safe in this. for a fact we are not keeping won show your'ls safe in this. for a fact we are not keeping won show your lack fe in this. for a fact we are not keeping won show your lack ofin this. you show your lack of understanding echr. understanding of the echr. >> this a foreign court >> this isn't a foreign court that on us. this is our that imposed on us. this is our values outlook that we values and our outlook that we shared with the rest of europe. no. >> so then there won't be a problem with us leaving it then, because no threat it because there's no threat to it being away if echr because there's no threat to it being the away if echr because there's no threat to it being the truthful if echr because there's no threat to it being the truthful progressive zhr where the truthful progressive you because you talk about climate, because the is that their the point is that their interpretation of is rogue. interpretation of this is rogue. they law and

they are creating law and imposing it us with no imposing it on us with no democratic that democratic accountability. that is this mission is unacceptable. this is mission creep. so creep. it's a power grab. so i assume you think it's right that we go to zero net by 2050? >> no. okay. but you just made your whole argument saying that we the democrats , we must do what the democrats, you know, the democracy wants. well, have my views . country well, i have my views. country has voted for net has overwhelmingly voted for net zero by 2050 because it was in the labour, lib dem , tory and the labour, lib dem, tory and green manifesto. and so hang on, you just made your argument. if the people vote for it, it happens. the people voted for those manifestos and yet you don't. know you think you're don't. i know you think you're being think you're being clever. i think you're being clever. i think you're beiii] being clever. i think you're beiii know you think you're being >> i know you think you're being clever, to not clever, but you seem to not understand democracy works understand how democracy works because entitled because i am perfectly entitled to have different opinion to to have a different opinion to the the electorate. the majority of the electorate. if is the case. but i would if that is the case. but i would like that put to a vote. like to see that put to a vote. let's have referendum on the let's have a referendum on the echr let's a referendum on echr let's have a referendum on net and then see net zero, and then we'll see whether want referendum. >> the last referendum was so divisive, i supported brexit. i don't to see another don't want to see another referendum in this country in my lifetime. it divided this

country down the middle. we're still we're still recovering. >> still recovering from >> we're still recovering from the division. >> we're recovering from >> now we're recovering from democracy. not just democracy. you want not just one, referendums, one on one, but two referendums, one on net zero and one on echr. >> that absolutely extraordinary. you say you sit there say, i voted for there and you say, i voted for brexit, yet you want a foreign court to dictate our border policy and our climate? >> i didn't that. in fact. >> i didn't say that. in fact. >> i didn't say that. in fact. >> i didn't say that. in fact. >> i asked him , if you >> no. i asked him, if you listen that we shouldn't leave the what is the. the echr. no. what is the. that's not what i. >> darren. >> darren. darren. >> darren. darren. what >> darren. darren. what if >> darren. darren. what if you if have listened. if you'd have listened. >> you'd have, had >> if you'd have, if you had listened question listened answered that question already. listened answered that question alreplease don't patronise listened answered that question alrewhate don't patronise listened answered that question alrewhat ision't patronise listened answered that question alrewhat is the: patronise listened answered that question alrewhat is the answerise listened answered that question alrewhat is the answer ?3 >> what is the answer? >> what is the answer? >> darren, shut up a second. i'm talking. >> don't talk to me like that. how you? i said at the how dare you? i said at the beginning. am open to leaving beginning. i am open to leaving the i not, said. the echr i will not, i said. >> i said i wanted, wanted, >> i said i wanted, i wanted, i wanted some answers to the belfast good friday agreement and the eu, uk trade agreement. let's let's one has been able to give me one because i'll be willing to repeat himself over and over again. willing to repeat himself over anc he er again. willing to repeat himself over anc he lays|ain. willing to repeat himself over anc he lays out of his own voice. >> he lays out of his own voice. give answer. did answer

give me an answer. i did answer that question. didn't, that question. you didn't, i did, didn't, did you? did, yes. you didn't, did you? didn't absolutely did. you? did, yes. you didn't, did you? did didkbsolutely did. you? did, yes. you didn't, did you? did did not. utely did. you? >> did not. >> did not. >> no reason why. >> there's no reason why. i mean, they answered your question no reason question is there's no reason why dealt with why that can't be dealt with through parliament and through domestic need domestic law. it doesn't need to be through the echr be dealt with through the echr or in terms of rights, because this inappropriate subject this is an inappropriate subject to into the issue of to be wrapping into the issue of rights. still ahead, folks, we'll >> but still ahead, folks, we'll be be a history be buying. i'll be a history book british history , and book on british history, and you'll need you, like meghan and harry, come home. i'll be harry, to come home. i'll be says their glamour is needed in britain. is he right? let me know. you're with the saturday five life on

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five, as always. cheers. very much for all of your emails about tonight's topics. paul has written in. he says, i know benjamin jobsworth is a raving woke leftie, but you've got to hand to him. he takes so much

hand it to him. he takes so much stick and he can still laugh . stick and he can still laugh. but he says, how about the racegoers? they're at risk. it's held in liverpool and simon says, yes , darren grimes is says, yes, darren grimes is correct. simon i'm going to leave it there. no, we defeated the i ran away military and the good friday agreement is a betrayal of the unionist majority. i assume simon is from ulster, but let me know and thank you very much for all of those. it's time though, now for our next debate. who's going next? well, i'm going to lighten up the atmosphere in here by talking about our favourite roles that we all love to hate the duke and duch*ess of montecito. >> sorry, i mean sussex so earlier on this week, we saw some beautiful images of harry and meghan out in america at a polo match. and i just had a quick thought to myself, despite the fact i find this pair incredibly annoying. maybe it's

time for the duke and duch*ess of sussex and the rest of the royal family to bury the hatchet. they come home and fill the void which has been left by our senior royals who are unwell at the moment and dealing with other things. and dean, it's only really the queen, camilla, who we've seen out and about recently. so tonight i'm asking the question is it time for meghan and harry? will and kate, camilla and charles to bury the hatchet, get back together ? and hatchet, get back together? and for the duke and duch*ess of sussex to come home? >> abby, would you forgive your daughter who left you estranged for best part of half a decade? didn't invite you to her wedding. you had a heart attack. she didn't bother go and she didn't bother to go and visit you. the husband didn't bother to fly to ever you bother to fly to ever meet you upon the relationship starting. and never seen your and also you'd never seen your grandchildren. would you easily forgive and forget that kind of torrid ? torrid behaviour? >> don't children, but >> i don't have children, but i imagine i did have children , imagine if i did have children, i would want to have a relationship with them as much

as possible . so meghan markle, as possible. so meghan markle, we're talking about thomas we're not talking about thomas markle, talking about markle, we're talking about we're talking the we're talking about the royal family. matters what meghan family. it matters what meghan markle meghan markle preaches compassion , humanity, being a compassion, humanity, being a good person, yet she's treated her father . her father. >> yes, he's made mistakes. he made massive co*ck up with made a massive co*ck up with those paparazzi if those paparazzi pictures. but if she was compassionate and so she was so compassionate and so forgiving humanitarian that forgiving and humanitarian that how amazing i am, she would have forgiven her father, the forgiven her father, buried the hatchet and some sort of hatchet and had some sort of relationship her. you lead relationship with her. you lead by cant relationship with her. you lead by can't rule, you by example. you can't rule, you know, gallivant around the world, some fake world, building some fake faux brand humanity you treat brand on humanity when you treat your father that way. and same for harry his family as for harry and his family as well. deserve each other well. they deserve each other and shouldn't come to england. >> and wouldn't useful, >> and wouldn't it be useful, emma have some extra emma webb, to have some extra senior the moment? senior royals at the moment? who could get out and do the could get out there and do the jobs meeting the great jobs of meeting the great british people? and wouldn't harry and meghan be perfect for that job? >> who those senior >> depends on who those senior royals meghan no royals are. and meghan is no princess think they are princess anne. i think they are the last thing that we need. in fact, saw those photographs the last thing that we need. in fact, sort' those photographs the last thing that we need. in fact, sort orose photographs the last thing that we need. in fact, sort of like photographs the last thing that we need. in fact, sort of like the :ographs the last thing that we need. in fact, sort of like the glamour and saw sort of like the glamour and saw sort of like the glamour

and that you think that and sparkle that you think that the royal family could do with. i saw those photographs and i saw a sort of la princess who, isn't, you know, i mean, you've just described it perfectly, ben. i just think that they're the last thing that royal family needs now, that doesn't mean i don't think that it would be nice for them personally bury nice for them to personally bury the that it's always the hatchet, that it's always a sad families fall sad thing when families fall apart. and actually think apart. and i do actually think thomas will probably thomas markle will probably forgive meghan for anything because forgive meghan for anything beca much, but they've behaved very much, but they've behaved atrociously. they've made their decision. their bed decision. they've made their bed . they need to lie in it. they should stop using the duke and duch*ess sussex titles, go and duch*ess of sussex titles, go and do thing and just have do their own thing and just have live their private lives. >> that's another great point. >> that's another great point. >> we have other we have other senior royals could step in. senior royals who could step in. princess princess princess beatrice, princess eugenie could step up and take part. i'm have always part. and i'm all have always been against a slimmed down royal family. i think this has proved why that's a bad idea. but we not need harry and but we do not need harry and meghan darren. but we do not need harry and me�*they darren. but we do not need harry and me�*they are 'en. but we do not need harry and me�*they are irritating. they >> they are irritating. they have mistakes have made mistakes but there's a markle sparkle, isn't there ?

markle sparkle, isn't there? >> i mean, i'll be. i have to put it to you. are you republican? >> no, i'm just saying there's a markle sparkle because i think, how could you not look at those images? i don't know if you can get them back up and look at the celebrity there. >> don't see a royal. i >> and i don't see a royal. i see a celebrity. fantastic. >> great if they >> wouldn't it be great if they were representing britain? >> see a lady breaking the >> i see a lady breaking the royal >> i see a lady breaking the roy'absolutely. at them. >> absolutely. look at them. wouldn't they wouldn't it be great if they were out there show were out there on show representing britain? >> absolutely actually >> absolutely not. i actually would that would be would argue that you would be bringing end of the bringing about the end of the monarchy. if you bring the two of them they so deeply of them back. they are so deeply unpopular in this country now that it worth thinking about. >> no place the name also, they can't trusted. >> no place the name also, they can how trusted. >> no place the name also, they can how are sted. >> no place the name also, they can how are they supposed to >> how are they supposed to function as senior royals when they can't be trusted at all? i mean, even secrets about king charles's cancer, be charles's cancer, would they be selling at first selling at the first opportunity? they as opportunity? no, they are as as the spot that podcast executive said are grifters. are said they are grifters. they are in themselves. they in it for themselves. they cannot be to be close to cannot be trusted to be close to the family, and they are the royal family, and they are not suitable service. not suitable for public service. >> i the is that >> no, i think the truth is that they have absolutely no desire

to return to royal service . and to return to royal service. and i think the problem is that, you know, it seems it's obviously possible it's his birthright that prince harry could return . that prince harry could return. to that. you can't change that without an act of parliament. but i don't think that meghan markle would ever be accepted by this country. and look, i have to honest, because, know, to be honest, because, you know, as man in britain, as the wokeist man in britain, i know i should meghan know that i should love meghan markle, makes it so hard markle, but she makes it so hard to her because the to like her because the hypocrisy keeps doing hypocrisy that she keeps doing the entitlement about the sense of entitlement about the sense of entitlement about the way she behaves, the lack of hard work is evident in hard work that is evident in what publish and how rarely what they publish and how rarely they produce anything. the fact that few charity that they do so few charity engagements compared to, for example, princess anne, who can do 4 or 500 in a year. you know, when meghan markle goes out and does them, there's a couple of times a year, sometimes it's for, friends, for, you know, just for friends, not simply act of not even simply for the act of charity. all must know charity. and we all must know about and just think about it. and i just think that's enough for that's not good enough for a royal. i wouldn't want her royal. so i wouldn't want her

back she having a back unless she was having a serious change of heart. >> at moment, we're in a >> but at the moment, we're in a situation is situation where the king is essentially action. essentially out of axon action. the princess of wales is recovering, the prince of wales is helping his wife recover . is helping his wife recover. queen camilla is holding up the fort. it be useful fort. wouldn't it be useful to have extra you have an extra seat for you senior royals? >> i think and beatrice >> i think eugenie and beatrice might more popular might be a much more popular choice the montecito pair. choice than the montecito pair. >> last word. sorry. emma >> oh, so last word. sorry. emma made a great stop using made a great point. stop using those the duke and those titles. the duke and duch*ess of sussex. if you were so badly treated, were close so badly treated, you were close to stopped you to suicide. they stopped you travelling. your travelling. they held your passport. hate the royal passport. if you hate the royal family passport. if you hate the royal fa racist. using of racist. stop using the titles, grifters. titles, you pair of grifters. >> well , titles, you pair of grifters. >> well, don't titles, you pair of grifters. >> well , don't they be prince >> well, don't they be prince and princess henry of wales. >> well, don't they be prince ancyeah,ess henry of wales. >> well, don't they be prince ancyeah, well. anry of wales. >> well, don't they be prince ancyeah, well. on! of wales. >> well, don't they be prince ancyeah, well. oh dear/ales. >> well, don't they be prince ancyeah, well. oh dear god, >> yeah, well. oh dear god, where's the israel—hamas conflict hits the supermarket shelves. and for shelves. and is it time for a saint george's day bank holiday? i know someone that thinks so. you're with the saturday five live on

gb news. oh. hey! the weather is getting to us all. welcome back to the saturday five. and thank you very much for all of your emails. john has written in, and john says, oh, he's angry. she's no princess and cannot adjust herself to become one. and christine says, this is never going to happen. meghan would be expected to curtsy to the king, the queen and the prince and princess of wales as well. perhaps she can apologise while she's down there, but now it's time for our next debate. it's well , i'm time for our next debate. it's well, i'm going to go now because i've had enough of us not celebrating our national identity. i think it's about time that actually we celebrate saint george's day, the day of our patron patron saint, the day that represents, you know, our flag and nationhood. these symbols, these trinkets of englishness, i think are basically pushed to one side

where racist, white, horrible bigots in england let's not celebrate their national day. scotland saint andrew's day is a pubuc scotland saint andrew's day is a public holiday. why can't we do the same thing here? i'm sick and tired of being told that what we have and what we have is actually something that englishmen throughout history have built up, and i think we ought to be proud of that and celebrate it a hell of a lot more than we do. i thought. >> you're about to start singing. oh, jeremy corbyn for a second. >> well, i agree with jeremy corbyn because i think on this i was about to say, i think it's probably only jeremy probably one of the only jeremy corbyn i thought, corbyn policies that i thought, well, i'm lockstep corbyn policies that i thought, well, you i'm lockstep corbyn policies that i thought, well, you on i'm lockstep corbyn policies that i thought, well, you on whatn lockstep corbyn policies that i thought, well, you on what was:kstep corbyn policies that i thought, well, you on what was thezp behind you on what was the policy to have bank holiday policy to have a bank holiday for saint george's like for the saint george's day like there holidays other there are bank holidays in other parts scotland parts of the country, scotland for saint andrew's day, etc, so i with you, darren. but i agree with you, darren. but the why keir the question is why isn't keir starmer's labour man who starmer's labour your man who you support pushing these patriotic that keir patriotic policies that keir starmer seems to say he supports but doesn't actually support in real life? >> what's so interesting to hear a tory saying that people should

have so much more time off? can i you? why not just hand i correct you? why not just hand them out to lib dem? >> liberal democrat, >> oh, the liberal democrat, blue liberal. >> don't don't agree >> look, i don't i don't agree with you. you know, actually i'm, i'm going to a saint george's day celebration, good lord, with emily thornberry next week week after, no. in week or the week after, no. in the speaker's house. and i thought when i got the invite, i thought, god, i've never been to a saint george's celebration or event before . not sort of, you event before. not sort of, you know, in my the village where i grew up or not, in a professional capacity. well, let me it's just not something that we celebrate. you we really celebrate. would you feel of saint george ? i would cross of saint george? i would fly the union jack because that feels much more comfortable because, well, on on any day. because it feels like the union jack embraces diversity and the variety of these islands. >> you were so close , so close, benjamin. >> such a good job. let's let him speak a little bit. >> couldn't help but put the foot in. >> now, let me just say this

though. one of the reasons why so we don't celebrate saint george's pretend to george's day. it's pretend to think look, there think that we do. look, there are bank holidays are too many bank holidays at this no, saying we this point. no, i'm saying we should. i that we should should. i think that we should have holiday mark have a bank holiday to mark queen passing, which queen elizabeth's passing, which was end of the was at the other end of the yeah was at the other end of the year. and when we need a bank holiday, i think that is the patriotic thing. >> monarch. >> every monarch. >> every monarch. >> no, she's she is. >> well, no, she's she is. i would call her elizabeth the great. should have a day great. she should have a day recognising her contribution over years. over 70 years. >> tell what, elizabeth >> i tell you what, elizabeth the would have said. she the great would have said. she would said actually, would have said that actually, that identity that that national identity, that unity is unity that that brings is incredibly important . right? and incredibly important. right? and actually, she would have said philip turned that darren grimes off. denigrate and destroy. i think have done, think what what we have done, what achievements we have, i think i'm very proud to be think it's i'm very proud to be engush think it's i'm very proud to be english and i want to be able to say feel more of a brit than english. >> and i actually agree with benjamin i prefer i benjamin that i, i prefer i would to fly the union jack. >> well, because you are you like diversity it represents. >> no, not because of >> no, no, no, not because of that nonsense, but because i just, see myself a brit and

just, i see myself as a brit and that scotland, northern that includes scotland, northern ireland and wales. my only problem and problem is the scots and the welsh you say ? welsh hate us. you say? >> my problem is the scots >> my only problem is the scots and welsh . and the welsh. >> no offence any scots. >> no offence to any scots. >> no offence to any scots. >> it's kind of . it's >> no offence to any scots. >> it's kind of. it's kind >> well, it's kind of. it's kind of like arsenal and tottenham. arsenal. i don't really have a problem with tottenham because they're insignificant. they're so insignificant. but yet it's the yet spurs hate arsenal. it's the same the scots and the same with the scots and the welsh think northern welsh and i think the northern irish but seem to irish are okay, but they seem to have english, have a problem with the english, whereas they'll be relieved. i don't . i whereas they'll be relieved. i don't. i have no problem whereas they'll be relieved. i don't . i have no problem with don't. i have no problem with the scots or the welsh, but there seems to be like a visceral anger towards the english. that prefer english. but that said, i prefer to jack. to fly the union jack. >> no. i think myself >> yeah, no. i think of myself as english british as being english first, british second, you're right that second, but you're right that there is, there is this kind of, disparaging roger scruton called it the culture of repudiation, this sense that being english is somehow dirty, whereas scottish nationalism or irish nationalism or welsh nationalism isn't thought of as something that you should feel shameful about, that you shouldn't feel pride towards . and i agree with you, darren. i think that we should have saint george's national saint george's day as a national holiday, and think that

holiday, and i think that actually it's really actually it's only it's really only symptom we only a small symptom that we need over need to get over that self—hatred. we to be self—hatred. and we need to be able to be proud in saying that patriotism is virtue. patriotism is a virtue. >> all right, folks, at home >> all right, folks, you at home will ultimate decider. of will be the ultimate decider. of course. let us know by, gbnews.com/yoursay. is the gbnews.com/yoursay. that is the website is i've got it wrong about ten times this week. all right. now there's only one person left. so i'm afraid to say it's time for benjamin butterworth, yes, it is and butterworth, yes, it is me. and i've got an interesting one this week. so, you know, you get all these great political speeches like famously like martin luther king famously said, i have a dream. well, this week some protesters started their famous political speech with today we're in lidl and later went on to say, these baby wipes are contaminated with genocide. well, this is protesters anti—israel or pro—palestine protesters, depending on how you look at it, who have decided to take products off the shelves because they have in some way a link to they have in some way a link to the state of israel . let's take the state of israel. let's take a look at the clip. >> this is a customer announcement and eamonn in

nederland, the blacks road, the attack, the melmore salem is really products in the store. >> dup new baby wipes are contaminated with genocide for occupation. >> no more 5678. there is a terrorist in green free outside green free outside free. palestine >> well, if only nelson mandela were here to see their brave protests in the aisles of asda. now we have a big issue with this at the moment, which is the civil disobedience of trying to disrupt other people's lives. and i've defended some of it, i think some have, of what extinction rebellion did at one point was really powerful. it obviously the debate. obviously changed the debate. there's that there's just no disputing that it that level . but it worked on that level. but where do you draw the line? >> i hate them so i'd say to emma, what do you think about this? >> i mean, do they have a right to march in the streets of sainsbury's? >> i'm getting the sense ,

>> i'm getting the sense, benjamin, that you're in favour of this stuff when you agree with it and against it when you don't, no. i mean, i think these people are ridiculous and i think that he doesn't shop in lidl. no of course not. so lidl. i no of course not. so we'll taking wet wipes we'll be taking the wet wipes off of the off of shelves, off of the off of m&s shelves, no. mean , i think that no. i mean, i think that obviously people have a right to protest , but people don't have a protest, but people don't have a right to, to commit crimes in the act of protesting. they don't have the right to go into shops, into private properties and be disruptive like that. and i also think that fundamentally bds , the boycott, divestment, bds, the boycott, divestment, sanctions movement that wants to boycott israeli goods, i think, yes, i do agree that you can criticise israel without being anti—semitic . there are lots of anti—semitic. there are lots of people in israel who are critical of the israeli government. but i definitely think that there is an to think that there is an aspect to bds is anti—semitic , and, bds that is anti—semitic, and, and i, you know, i think some of that lot it sounds like they have ulster accents . so i'm have ulster accents. so i'm going to assume that they vote

for one party and one party only, and that's sinn fein. and therefore, if that's the case, well, i mean, i'll be you know, are you part of baby wipes against genocide? >> no, of course i'm not part of baby wipes genocide. >> but i do just want to say i find it extremely irritating when people infer that people who are supportive of the free palestine movement are inherently anti—semitic in some way, shape or form, it is perfectly. hang on before you, i just say people imply you infer it is whatever. thank you. people imply that people who support free palestine are anti—semitic. it is perfectly possible as you mentioned, emma, to be critical of the state of israel and what they are doing in gaza, which is awful, and also what they're doing in the west bank, which is awful. you can those things can be critical of those things without anti—semitic. and can be critical of those things vithinkt anti—semitic. and can be critical of those things vithink it anti—semitic. and can be critical of those things vithink it doesn'tti—semitic. and can be critical of those things vithink it doesn't do semitic. and can be critical of those things vithink it doesn't do anything.nd i think it doesn't do anything to bring down the tension . when to bring down the tension. when you just say some of you disagree with is anti—semitic ,

disagree with is anti—semitic, or someone else that you disagree with is islamophobic, when actually they are making points which are perfectly reasonable, it's perfectly reasonable, it's perfectly reasonable to be critical of what's happening in israel and gaza. and it's not anti—semitic to say so. >> unfortunately, that's what a lot of remarkable between anti—semites and people that hate israel and will back , you hate israel and will back, you know, monstrous child murderers. instead, it's a venn diagram . i instead, it's a venn diagram. i think that this the editor of the jewish chronicle, jake shared this jake simpson, wallace simmons, that's it. he shared this and he said the oldest hate hatred is back . and oldest hate hatred is back. and frankly, that image of people going around shops taking off the most pathetic products, you know, baby wipes for god's sake, and sodastream's and saying that you can't have those because they're linked to israel. i mean, that that gives echoes of people around and smashing people going around and smashing up businesses in in up jewish businesses in that in germany, not new, though. germany, it's not new, though. >> i used i was 16, 17, >> i used to when i was 16, 17, i to work for a water i used to work for a water company and we'd have no joke.

hundreds and hundreds of customers months customers every couple of months wanting their water wanting to change their water metres because the existing ones, probably still metres because the existing one now probably still metres because the existing onenow made probably still metres because the existing onenow made byobably still metres because the existing one now made by israeli still are now made by israeli companies. so it's not new. and that like 1516. that was like 1516. >> and yet they're all on their iphones. does that iphones. and where does that technology come from? israel. >> what's point in that >> so what's the point in that comment ? i'm >> so what's the point in that comment? i'm i'm really comment? i'm just i'm not really sure your point is. are you sure what your point is. are you saying everyone that protests against the horrors that are going on in gaza is anti—semitic and so all of those people in that supermarket, even though they were doing stupid things, we can all agree with that are somehow anti—semitic. somehow inherently anti—semitic. is saying? is that what you're saying? >> well, would be intrigued >> well, i would be intrigued just know whether jewish just to know whether jewish businesses have link businesses that have no link necessarily get the necessarily to israel get the same response, because we know that on october 8th, i went to north london as a reporter to go to a jewish owned restaurant that had had its windows smashed in, free in, and they'd had free palestine graffitied opposite it. the reality it. i think that is the reality that a lot of jewish people are facing in this country. and it's not about israel. not really about israel. >> hell of an

>> okie doke. one hell of an houh >> okie doke. one hell of an hour. just had still hour. we've just had still to come , though. be getting come, though. we'll be getting the horrific the latest on the horrific events, rather in sydney events, events rather in sydney with master of with an australian master of national security studies student king's college . and student at king's college. and we'll be answering ask the questions. your questions rather and ask the five i can't speak. you're with the saturday five live on . gb news. live on. gb news. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. so it's been a bit of a drier day for most of us, but there has been a few showers around, low pressure, never too far away, out towards the north of uk, but higher pressure of the uk, but higher pressure down towards the south and the west something west does bring something briefly settled. have briefly more settled. there have been and been those showers around and they much been those showers around and th

and we could even some snow and we could even see some snow continuing across high continuing across the high ground though, ground here. elsewhere, though, generally much drier generally turning much drier through the evening, with those clear skies allowing temperatures into the temperatures to drop into the single around 7 or single figures around 7 or 8 degrees across the south, but even lower further north. perhaps frost places . so perhaps some frost in places. so a chilly start across scotland, northern and northern northern england and northern ireland. but those showers quickly pushing in from the west again as we go through sunday morning into the afternoon. morning and into the afternoon. further south, after of further south, after a bit of a dner further south, after a bit of a drier start to the morning, there be some sunshine there will be some sunshine through of the through the first part of the day, cloud bubbling up day, but some cloud bubbling up as and could see the as well, and we could see the odd or 2 showers across wales odd 1 or 2 showers across wales and england. less and into northern england. less warm saw on saturday. warm than we saw on saturday. highs of 15 in the south highs of 14 or 15 in the south and a little closer to and a little bit closer to average further north. monday starts a widely showery day across the uk. bands of showers push their way south and eastwards through monday morning, and then there will be some breaks sunnier some breaks and some sunnier spells between showers. spells between those showers. but particularly but there could be particularly heavy north and a brisk heavy in the north and a brisk northwesterly it northwesterly wind will make it feel cooler. showers continue

through the first part of next week with temperatures below average, turning little average, but turning a little milder second milder through the second half of week . of the week. >> like things are heating >> looks like things are heating up as sponsors of up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> it's saturday night and this is the second hour of the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, along with albie amankona, emma webb, ben leo, and benjamin butterworth. plenty more to come tonight, including fallouts over liz truss's crusade to save the west , crusade to save the west, monkeys exploited for milk and the latest from i don't know why i'm laughing and the latest from a very serious story the horrible attack in the mall in sydney with an australian national security scholar . we'll national security scholar. we'll get all the latest there. it's 7 pm. and this is the saturday

five. now still to come, folks. don't forget that we'll be answering your questions. have your say @gbnews dot com slash your. see, it's your chance to ask benjamin your heart's desire. and i'll be the aa man . amankona versus ben the aa man. amankona versus ben the aa man. amankona versus ben the leo the lion leo even over liz truss. they're going to debate it out, ben leo tweeted something glowing about liz truss. find out what that is. after the break at glasgow university official quoting bobby sands a disgrace and monkeys being exploited for coconut milk , first of all, coconut milk, first of all, though, it's your news with aaron armstrong . aaron armstrong. >> very good evening to you. i'm aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom. rishi sunak says his heart goes out to all those affected by a knife attack at a

shopping mall in sydney. that killed six people. the assailant injured of other people injured a number of other people , nine old , including a nine month old baby, challenged by baby, before being challenged by a member the public. the a member of the public. the attack ended when female attack ended when a female officer confronted man officer confronted the man and shot baby remains shot him dead. the baby remains in critical condition. the child's mother was amongst those killed. police say they don't believe the motive was terror related, and the australian prime minister, anthony albanese, praised her bravery. >> today, bondi junction was the scene of shocking violence, but it was also witness to the humanity and the heroism of our fellow australians, our brave police, our first responders and of course , everyday people who of course, everyday people who could never have imagined that they would face such a moment. and some of the footage is quite extraordinary . extraordinary. >> nine people have been arrested on suspicion of committing public order offences dunng committing public order offences during protests in central london earlier , tens of london earlier, tens of thousands of pro—palestinian protesters gathered in

westminster to call for a ceasefire in gaza and urged the government to stop arms sales to israel. a counter demonstration against what organisers are calling anti—israel hate was also taking place in the area. the suspects remain in police custody . the suspects remain in police custody. iranian the suspects remain in police custody . iranian special forces custody. iranian special forces have seized a container ship and 25 crew members off the coast of the united arab emirates. the vessel, which has links to israel, was passing through the strait of hormuz. it's now been taken to iranian waters as fears of an escalation in the region grow. iran has vowed to retaliate for an air strike on its consulate in syria. almost two weeks ago, which killed a number of senior officers. israel has now placed its armed forces on full alert and has cancelled school trips in readiness for a possible attack . readiness for a possible attack. president biden's closing the gap on donald trump, according to a new poll highlighting how close november's presidential election could be. the poll, by the york times and siena

the new york times and siena college has found 45% say they'd vote for the president , college has found 45% say they'd vote for the president, compared to 46 for mr trump . it means to 46 for mr trump. it means there are now virtually tied with joe biden's standing amongst democratic voters, improving . greater manchester improving. greater manchester police say they found what they believe to be human remains of a young baby. in wigan. five people have been arrested on suspicion of concealing a death and unlawful burial. the group, aged between 20 and 70 years old, have been bailed . officials old, have been bailed. officials in turkey have ordered the detention of 13 people after yesterday's deadly cable car collision. one person was killed and ten others injured when the cable car collided with a broken pole , ripping the pod open and pole, ripping the pod open and sending people inside plummeting to the rocks below. 174 passengers were rescued during a massive 23 hour operation involving ten helicopters and more than 600 rescue workers , more than 600 rescue workers, and i am maximus has won the

grand national at aintree after changes to safety rules saw the highest number of horses crossed the finish line since 1992. the 7 to 1 joint favourite romped home by seven and a half lengths to give jockey paul townsend his first national win, and irish trainer willie mullins his second at 21 of the 32 runners, finished the race, with all horses returning safely . well, horses returning safely. well, for the latest on our story, sign up to gb news alerts. you can scan the qr code on your screen or go to our website for more details. now it's back to the saturday five. >> it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes and i can promise that you're for in another very lively hour before we get going , we're going to we get going, we're going to have a look at some of your emails that have been coming in thick and fast and furious. elizabeth says saint george's day should be a bank holiday.

i'm from northern ireland and we have a bank holiday for saint patrick's day. wales has a bank. well, actually, i don't know if wales does have a bank holiday for day. been for saint david's day. it's been proposed scotland proposed though, but scotland have saint have a bank holiday for saint andrew's so why shouldn't andrew's day, so why shouldn't we an england have a bank we have an england have a bank holiday? couldn't agree more. holiday? i couldn't agree more. and , could you please and mike says, could you please ask presenters guests ask your presenters and guests to union flag and not union to use union flag and not union jack? the union jack is only flown on royal navy ships when in port and james says, i can't believe it. oh, i've agreed with benjamin butterworth a few times now you need to get your head checked and i'm just joking, james. now let's crack on with tonight's next segment. we've got a big interview right now . got a big interview right now. the australian mall attack, which took place killed six and injured one baby. the assailant has not been named and the motive as yet is unknown. i'm joined now by masters of national security studies

student at kings college, jake thorpe. jake, thank you very much for joining thorpe. jake, thank you very much forjoining us on the much for joining us on the saturday five. good evening. thank you for having me. >> and i'm sorry it's under these circ*mstances that indeed now , jake, just how common are now, jake, just how common are these sort of things becoming now throughout the west? >> should we, in your opinion, get used to this happening more and more ? and more? >> well, the point about it is these are lone wolf attacks and thatis these are lone wolf attacks and that is very hard for intelligence services to track. these aren't aren't people anymore buying ingredients from the local hardware store to sort of put together a bomb , the of put together a bomb, the accessibility of these attacks are as such, where you can basically get any kitchen knife and, and go out there and create terror . now, the police terror. now, the police commissioner in new south wales today said that it wasn't a political terrorist attack and all this sort of stuff. look,

all this sort of stuff. look, all that's yet to be known. i mean, the story is still developing, but it was a horrific event, totally shocking i >> -- >> yeah. i mean, how can they say with a lot of viewers are confused by that? because how can they say with conviction that they know that for certain we just we don't we haven't ascertained that yet. is that right? yeah. >> well that's right. yes. and i mean, it's not terrorism, but it is yeah. you've got is terrifying. yeah. you've got six people now confirmed dead and sadly, you've got a nine month old baby hospitalised . month old baby hospitalised. yeah. which is terrible. and the mother has just confirmed in the last few hours the mother is now deceased, and what sort of area is it like, jake? >> what can you just describe what the location of the mall is actually like ? is it incredibly actually like? is it incredibly busy? would this have been, you know , a very heavily populated know, a very heavily populated area or totally, totally, this is an area i know. >> well. i mean, before i moved to london, i lived in sydney's

eastern suburbs. i mean, it's just a ten minute drive up the road, huge shopping precinct, basically, where everyone flocks to on the weekend, today actually was the first day of, of school holidays. so it would have been full of teenagers. and you know what it's like hanging around. yeah, so, yeah, very, very , populated area, it is very, populated area, it is actually in a, an area in sydney, that boasts some of the most jewish heavy suburbs in the country. i don't know. make of that what you will again , we that what you will again, we don't know a lot at this stage, as the previous news bulletin just alluded to, no names have been named, but. and you know what that is ? i think the what that is? i think the biggest i'm very taken aback by that. and dismayed. i mean, when i did watch the police commissioner's press conference today , i mean, the public today, i mean, the public deserve to know who this man is. where does he reside? does he have a spouse ? what does he do

have a spouse? what does he do for work? you know who who is this man? who is this monster ? this man? who is this monster? the public deserve to know that. and i think the fact that the police are withholding that information. when the police commissioner that this commissioner did say that this man was known to police. yes. i mean, why was he known to police? the public deserved to know. do hope that know. so i really do hope that when australians wake up on sunday that, you know, sunday morning that, you know, the government and the authorities release more information because i think that's deserved . that's deserved. >> and, jake, i do just want to ask you about the fact that he was known to police. we do know some information about him. we also know he's he 40 also know he's 40. he was 40 years i believe. why is it years old, i believe. why is it that so often we hear about these awful atrocities that happen, and then afterwards we'll hear that the culprit was known to the police? surely you would expect if someone like that was known to the police. it's the police's job to stop them from doing something like this before it happens . this before it happens. >> well that's right, i mean that that should be the

prevention strategy. in that sense. you're spot on. i mean , sense. you're spot on. i mean, the uk just had the clapham attacker, didn't they? who was also known to police yet allowed to roam. i mean, are why are authorities allowing these people to walk the streets. i mean i don't understand that part of it. does it come down to lack of resources ? i'm not sure lack of resources? i'm not sure it. so i really can't answer your question, but i agree with your question, but i agree with your concern , and that is that your concern, and that is that these a lot of these people who again, carry out the attacks only where only then we only learn afterwards. oh, no. they were known to us and i mean, thatis were known to us and i mean, that is a bit of a let down for the public. and the one thing is that we can't allow these attacks to happen sense attacks to happen in the sense that allow them to. that we can't allow them to. i guess! that we can't allow them to. i guess i can't we can't allow the pubuc guess i can't we can't allow the public to lose confidence in being able to roam freely, to visit public places, to go to the shopping centre and do your groceries on the weekend, and i just hope tomorrow or, you know,

sunday, australian time, that there's a lot of police presence on the street. and indeed it's something i've experienced over here in the sense that i don't see too many police walking the streets either. i mean, police presence a thing presence is a big thing at street and that street level, and i fear that the west lacking that in the west is lacking that in general. it a general. now, is it a recruitment crisis? maybe. is it the fact that the are so the fact that the police are so under—resourced and consumed with work and all with all this other work and all these other jobs, and with all this other work and all these otherjobs, and nothing really beats the old fashioned, having cops on the beat roaming through shopping centres, and that creates a presence of security . okay. and, and security. okay. and, and calmness for the public. jake what's what's the atmosphere like and the feeling like amongst australians because obviously we've had a lot of these attacks in europe and there's always this sense afterwards that the news cycle gets shorter and shorter. >> we hear things like, don't look back in anger. is there a sense in australia that the government are taking these things or do things seriously? or do australians feel that, you know,

perhaps that those who are in charge of their security and are not really alert to the dangers and that things, you know, really could escalate out, yeah. look, i mean, i guess because we're down under, we feel slightly sheltered from these sorts of attacks . and yes, sorts of attacks. and yes, you're right, we watch we watch on, and we watch these attacks all the time in australia unfold in europe and the uk and, and i mean, you've had you've had an mp, of previous mps actually, you know, stabbed in the street sort of stuff. so i mean, it is, it is, it is shocking, so i guess to answer your question , i guess to answer your question, i think there is a mentality in australia where we sometimes feel that we're conditioned from this and this won't affect us. and yet here we are and the area in which it took place. this attack is an affluent area. it's an area where you wouldn't really think something like this would happen. and i think that's the major shock , in that sense. the major shock, in that sense. i mean, obviously australia is

rocked by it, but sydney in particular is going, hang on a minute, how can this even happen at westfield? and where's the security again? it's a very populated aren't there? populated place, aren't there? police . now i did read police nearby. now i did read earlier today and again there's no names or anything but the female police officer who shot the attacker was apparently, i think nearby checking licenses in in pubs. so she actually really wasn't on on duty to , you really wasn't on on duty to, you know, to patrolling that area. she was her say. yeah absolutely. which is. yeah. yeah. so jane, you live in london do you. yes i do now. >> yes. as an expert in national security, what do you make of our security here in the uk? of course. we've got something like 40,000 fighting age men every year coming on small boats across the channel, pretty much the same problem you guys had tony it overnight tony abbott sorted it overnight with turnback won with a turnback policy. he won re—election, . rishi re—election, by the way. rishi sunak, what do you make of the situation because we've situation here? because we've got fighting age males, thousands them to the

thousands of them coming to the uk. don't know who they uk. we don't know who they are, where from. they where they've come from. they throw mobile into throw their mobile phones into the english channel their the english channel and their passports, us passports, as well as us national security expert. what's your uk right your assessment of the uk right now? i'll just stop you. now? well i'll just stop you. >> i'm not much a national >> i'm not so much a national security expert. i doing security expert. i am doing my master's national security master's in national security studies want my studies and i just want my lecturers and professors humble. >> that. >> know that. >> know that. >> that's okay. that's >> that's okay. no, that's that's more than okay. look, i mean, when it comes to this boat , the boat people issue. i mean, you're right, australia had this, many years ago and tony abbott had the fortitude, the intestinal fortitude say, intestinal fortitude to say, hey, is going to stop. we hey, this is going to stop. we don't know who these people are, and they're basically coming over of the times as over a lot of the times as economic refugees, because in australia, yes, you do get free health you do get welfare health care, you do get welfare benefits . yes. how good. so when benefits. yes. how good. so when i came here. yeah. that's right. and so when i look here as to what's going on, i mean, there was just one part of your question that you missed out. i mean, they joined the church of england do they not.

>> and to stay i mean that is crazy and pretend to be a christian and i mean this is i mean so how safe are we in your opinion. >> i'm, i'm, i'm quite well okay. i mean i'm quite confident in terms of the, the counter terrorism strategy in the uk is actually quite solid , and that actually quite solid, and that was obviously, introduced during, sort of the, it was the sort of the end of the blair brown era, and that was quite, thatis brown era, and that was quite, that is quite a good strategy. so in terms of safety, public safety. no, the, the uk , i mean, safety. no, the, the uk, i mean, you can be rest assured it's not all it's not all bad . but i all it's not all bad. but i think the biggest thing is, again, this street level police presence is, is huge. that is a huge issue. and, in terms of the refugees and asylum seekers , i refugees and asylum seekers, i mean, where there again, where are they coming from? will they import their problems into this country, into what is what

should be a very peaceful and accepting country ? i mean, you accepting country? i mean, you are you are accepting folk and you're being taken advantage of which. >> and jake, you'll remember the scenes of outside of the sydney opera house, of course, when the pro—palestine protest going pro—palestine protest was going on saying on there and they were saying the things about the most horrendous things about what should do to the jews. what they should do to the jews. terrible. there are terrible. so i think there are problems across piece, and problems across the piece, and i think the west needs wake up, think the west needs to wake up, to be perfectly frank. but jake, thank very much for your thank you very much for your time this evening. still to come, folks, we'll be answering your questions in ask the five, so get them in as well as i'll be the aa man, amankona and ben the lion . leo. they're duelling the lion. leo. they're duelling it out in the saturday scrap . it out in the saturday scrap. you're with the saturday five live on gp news. i think that was a lion

welcome back to the saturday

five. we're in. i think it's going to be one hell of a ask the. ask the questions . the. ask the questions. >> i honestly, honestly, he's been down the pub . been down the pub. >> i haven't even touched a drop yet. your questions in to drop a fake gbnews.com forward. slash your c. goodness gracious me. >> do you hear what benjamin said there? >> i didn't know, but i tell you what. i'm desperate for a pint. what did you say? >> you said you haven't touched a drop. i said i think you've touched a drop. a fake tan. oh >> oh, and there's a show there. we're done. >> it's a geordie town. thank you very much. right now it's time for tonight's main event. i'll be aa man am and conor i'll be the aa man am and conor versus ben the lion. leo on liz truss's plans to save the west. i'm hopeful , folks, that they'll i'm hopeful, folks, that they'll get their words out better than i will go ahead. >> okay, so i took a bit of stick this week. or was it last week for having a picture with

who i described as the best prime minister? we were never allowed to have liz truss. i say that because, in all seriousness , by the way, people thought i was joking about it. there's the picture, she's a real idol of mine, actually, because i think she was stitched up by a bunch of what people would call, i don't like the tum, but deep state, i think dominic cummings called it the blob. institutions such the treasury, such as the obr, the treasury, the bank of england, even her own party defied the will of own party who defied the will of their members. albie, i'd like you to address that directly in a to get her out of a second. to get her out of office, because they were scared and finally coming and terrified of finally coming across proper conservative across a proper conservative with conservative with decent conservative policies and a brave, bold economic for growth. i said economic plan for growth. i said to liz, when i saw her, you were the best prime minister. we were never allowed have because never allowed to have because despite to office, never allowed to have because des|was to office, never allowed to have because des|was taking to office, never allowed to have because des|was taking away to office, never allowed to have because des|was taking away takenfice, never allowed to have because des|was taking away taken away. she was taking away taken away. and said in what can and as i've said in what can only described as a stitch up only be described as a stitch up by globalist by all these globalist organisations, albie organisations, so albie amankona, you have mocked me this week for saying she was the best pm we were never allowed to

have. regret saying have. do you regret now saying that bearing mind that even that bearing in mind that even people hunt, the people like jeremy hunt, the biggest wets of them all, are now saying that actually liz truss, kwasi kwarteng had some good ideas. yes, they implemented it. >> i haven't had jeremy say that. and actually, actually, i've always said when it comes to truss that her ideas were to liz truss that her ideas were good, but she got the cadence wrong and that is my issue with liz truss. of course, i agree with a lot of the things that she was saying. of course i agree with a lot of the policies that she thought was a good idea. ido that she thought was a good idea. i do not agree with idea. what i do not agree with was way that she implemented was the way that she implemented those , and actually those policies, and actually what has has back what she has done has set back the free market conservative cause by a generation. because now whenever someone says tax cuts and supply side reform, the pubuc cuts and supply side reform, the public just get terrified that something like what happened with liz truss is going to happen again. and i want you to tell me, leo, what is tell me, ben, leo, what is conservative about taxes conservative about cutting taxes and of the and expanding the size of the state at the same time by paying

everyone's energy bills ? everyone's energy bills? >> well, the previous administration that the conservatives, labour have run the country and the economy into such a state that that that's what was needed to happen to inspire growth in the country. >> we needed to cut taxes and grow the state same time. grow the state at the same time. yeah. yeah, definitely. >> liz, the way, has >> and liz, by the way, has a new out next week, ten new book out next week, ten years to save the west. and for lib masquerading lib dems masquerading as conservatives you conservatives like you, are you albee people albee arguably and people of your in the conservative your ilk in the conservative party are the very reason the tories points behind in party are the very reason the tori polls points behind in party are the very reason the tori polls or points behind in party are the very reason the tori polls or whateverehind in party are the very reason the tori polls or whatever it|ind in party are the very reason the tori polls or whatever it is! in the polls or whatever it is. that's the reason. that's the reason, the reason, actually. that's the reason, actually. that's the reason absolutely reason you've absolutely destroyed a 2019 majority into you've it into annihilation. >> sorry, it's boris. it was empowered. >> and that's the reason you've threatened people like labour. >> you know, liz truss, she does mention her book that the queen told one meeting that told her in the one meeting that she with her, not to do she had with her, not to do things too quickly and that women a really difficult women have a really difficult time politics. and liz truss time in politics. and liz truss herself wishes she had herself says she wishes she had listened to the queen. that is where have ended

where the book should have ended . that's all you need to hear. no need to buy you've heard no need to buy it. you've heard the right here. the best bits right here. >> but on a serious >> all right. but on a serious note , do we think that actually note, do we think that actually the west is in need of saving? do you think the premise of the bookis do you think the premise of the book is right, even if you disagree with the substance? >> i think we very seriously need to change the way we are doing things in the west. we are just not going to be a competitive economic and military force in the 21st century. if we carry on down the road. >> you don't ask who was the only person brave enough to push forward with rubbish economic policies, but she has set that cause unbelievable. she cause unbelievable. you she set that the west is doomed unless we saw our economy out. are we further away or closer to the sorts economic ideas that liz sorts of economic ideas that liz truss was proposing? >> are we closer or further away from that as a result of her being in power doing? >> i don't know what this we're further away because she messed it i mean, she had to take >> i mean, she had to take responsibility for that. >> there. you asked. >> you were there. you asked. i was your book, which you

was sign your book, which you you the first one to. you were the first one to. >> i've no idea you on >> i've no idea what you on about ten years to save the we st. west. >> i believe . >> i believe. >> i believe. >> well, i needed something to burn warmth energy burn for warmth because energy bills expensive . it was the bills are expensive. it was the only way forward. it's very good of do that. yes, and of her to do that. yes, and look, i mean, she is the most unpopular modern prime minister the polling is consistent about that. no, is that. she's not? no, she is according a fact. that. she's not? no, she is acco polling a fact. that. she's not? no, she is acco polling consistently a fact. that. she's not? no, she is acco polling consistently shows. the polling consistently shows that that polls said that is that the polls that said that is that the polls that said that brexit would lose and donald trump would lose. and she take your tinfoil hat off ben. >> unpopular. take your tinfoil hat off ben. >> and unpopular. take your tinfoil hat off ben. >> and you popular. take your tinfoil hat off ben. >> and you populathe fact is >> and you know, the fact is that most viewers that i think most viewers watching regardless of watching this, regardless of what politics what their ideological politics might generally, will the might be generally, will see the fact their mortgage and fact that their mortgage is and many shot up at many of their bills shot up at the time that she did that mini—budget. and the fact is that you're going to do that if you're going to do something as radical as what she wanted you have to wanted to do, you have to explain you have here free explain it. you have here a free marketeer, woman who spent her marketeer, a woman who spent her political career us to political career telling us to believe market, that then believe in the market, that then says the doesn't says when the market doesn't like does, oh, they're like what she does, oh, they're all get me deluded. all out to get me deluded. you can't both ways. can't have it both ways. >> so deluded to say liz

>> you are so deluded to say liz truss raised mortgages. was she the. the the. was she president of the united states when their mortgages was she mortgages spiked 8? was she president france when their president of france when their mortgages spiked to 7? what about canada? the about canada? what about the rest of the world? you clearly know nothing about economics. to rest of the world? you clearly know that ing about economics. to rest of the world? you clearly know that liz about economics. to rest of the world? you clearly know that liz trusst economics. to rest of the world? you clearly know that liz truss raised�*mics. to think that liz truss raised mortgages by thousands pounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. s by thousands pounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. mry thousands pounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. mr leo, usands pounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. mr leo, isands pounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. mr leo, i think pounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. mr leo, i think myiounds think that liz truss raised mmonth. mr leo, i think my fouris a month. mr leo, i think my four years at the london school of economics qualified me more than i'd get. >> your money back based on her, i'd get your money back. >> hang a minute. i think >> so hang on a minute. i think you london school of you do the london school of economics disservice. economics a disservice. well, i also to study, by the way. also went to study, by the way. by also went to study, by the way. by by by inferring that the by by by by inferring that the reason interest rates higher reason interest rates are higher are oh, for goodness are because. oh, for goodness sake. the is, interest sake. the point is, the interest rates not higher because of rates are not higher because of liz being in power. liz truss being in power. she did drive interest rates did not drive interest rates higher in germany across the european union. that's wrong. and also in the us she didn't wrong because first she wrong because first of all, she did unconservative did the most unconservative thing, borrow, to thing, which is to borrow, to have and state have tax cuts and state expenditure . expenditure. >> all right. that is utterly economically illiterate. and the reason margaret thatcher, reason why margaret thatcher, her never did her proclaimed idol, never did what liz truss did. margaret thatcher waited years to cut

taxes because she knew that the most dangerous tax is inflation. and if you cut taxes, then inflation will stay high. are you talking about just didn't understand that. so you just put to i'm going to finish. you to me i'm going to finish. you just me that it didn't just put to me that it didn't affect inflation. of affect inflation. that kind of tax cutting absolutely damages inflation . inflation coming anyway. >> think most people >> and i think most people didn't inflation didn't think inflation was because much money because of too much money chasing goods after the chasing too few goods after the pandemic. that's inflation. >> states >> they print the united states printed entire printed a third of their entire money one year with money supply in one year with quantitative and quantitative easing. and you expect inflation not to happen. the bank of let me the bank of england. let me finish my point. >> let me finish my point directly to inflation. >> and i want to hear that again. >> we supply tight control of the money supply . the money supply. >> isn't that good? that is good. where did you learn that? >> i learnt that on a documentary. could you. >> could you sing it to liz truss? >> well, i will, but, emma, i want to bring you in here because that was the most masterful segue away from. >> yes, well, it shut them up, didn't it?

>> i want to ask you, do you the premise of the book ten years to save the west? she talks about economic issues around the world, talking economic issues around the world,other, talking economic issues around the world,other, more talking economic issues around the world,other, more fundamental about other, more fundamental issues. economy issues. not that the economy is not fundamental, know not fundamental, but you know what i you do you what i mean. do you do you worry? i mean, your question to our there was our australian guests, there was one know, basically , are one of, you know, basically, are we are we doomed? >> we're in trouble. and i don't think this is it, i don't civilisation, i don't think lowering mortgage rates as though although that would obviously be a good thing or deaung obviously be a good thing or dealing with issues in the economy what is going to economy is what is going to solve the cultural problem that i think is at the root of why we are in so much trouble. i mean, where do you even begin? of course we do . maybe it's less, course we do. maybe it's less, she says. it was it's ten years to save the west. probably less than that, i think the than that, i think maybe the ship's sailed ship's already sailed unsalvageable, know, unsalvageable, but, you know, i mean, you've still to keep mean, you've still got to keep on, keep on trucking on a on a keep calm and carry on. >> yes. i am one of those people. you know, i see a lot of posts online saying i'm off, i'm

going to go to australia. funnily and lower taxes. funnily enough, and lower taxes. dubal funnily enough, and lower taxes. dubai. much lower dubai. well, very much lower taxes . abolish them. ben leo's taxes. abolish them. ben leo's off. i'll be there soon and look , i'm not willing to leave this country. i will die on this hill, on this rock and die choking on your own blood as churchill, choking on exploited coconut . coconut milk. >> i love the west so much and hate how much it's changing. so you move to the middle east? >> no, i don't want to know. >> no, i don't want to know. >> but me people going to dubai. you to move dubai, do you want to move to dubai, do you? at least at you want to move to dubai, do you? they at least at you want to move to dubai, do you? they stick at least at you want to move to dubai, do you? they stick by least at you want to move to dubai, do you? they stick by their: at least they stick by their convictions. >> em n w- w— >> and, you know, i don't agree with all the. >> you want to move, you want to move to a muslim majority country love country because you love the west take no nonsense. >> one thing i admire about islam the that they islam is that the fact that they protect faith and they protect their faith and they they stick. >> you to move to a muslim >> you want to move to a muslim majority country you majority country because you love much. love the west so much. >> who said love the west? i'm >> who said i love the west? i'm frankly embarrassed about >> who said i love the west? i'm franwest, embarrassed about >> who said i love the west? i'm franwest, honestly. �*rassed about the west, honestly. >> on, when talk >> oh come on, when you talk about so—called to about so—called ten years to save britain's save the west and britain's position world, i very position in the world, i very much in british values, position in the world, i very muci in british values, position in the world, i very muci believe in british values, position in the world, i very muci believe in bthey values, position in the world, i very muci believe in bthey are ues, position in the world, i very muci believe in bthey are much and i believe that they are much

better of the middle better than many of the middle eastern have. eastern countries have. and other parts of the other countries in parts of the world. when truss tanked world. but when liz truss tanked her own party and the stability in government and the economic stability, you can argue about why it happened. but it happened. that undermines britain's position as a strong force west scheme is the force in the west scheme is the scheme is in the conservative party, the obr , the bank of england. >> you can make all the excuses. >> you can make all the excuses. >> they call me a conservative. ben leo. but i think individual responsibility matters and it's about time truss had some of about time liz truss had some of that. >> e still ahead >> okie dokie. still ahead monkeys exploited for coconut milk. the national theatre telling attendees don't laugh at the monkeys , tends to the poor monkeys, tends to self—censor and give us a grilling with your questions. in ask the five gbnews.com/yoursay fauciis ask the five gbnews.com/yoursay fauci is the link you need to with the saturday five live on

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welcome back to the saturday five. thank you for your emails. zoe has written in. good evening, zoe and zoe says. i can assure you, ben, not all scots hate england. the hate comes from the scottish national party. the rest of us love you and feel very british. >> cheers, zoe. >> cheers, zoe. >> i don't think she meant you. i think she meant the country. >> i'm british and don't rocketman leo. i'm organising his go away fund to dubai. if you want contribute . you want to contribute. >> right, be. i'll be. >> all right, i'll be. i'll be. what you got for in the what have you got for us in the bunch of five. >> so my bunch of five story is about tesco, posted very about tesco, which posted very good earnings this week. it's actually turned i think it's a 4.4% revenue increase this quarter . but 4.4% revenue increase this quarter. but it's had people wondering is it right that supermarkets are seen to be profiteering during a time there is a cost of living crisis. some people are saying maybe tesco, instead of focusing on profits, could have instead focusing on low, been focusing on lower pnces low, been focusing on lower prices for consumers like you at

home and us in the studio . so home and us in the studio. so i wonder what the rest of the panel thinks. emma, do you have any thoughts on whether or not it's right that tesco is making all of this money during a time of hardship for lots of their customers, profits and customers, profits go up and down fortunes can turn down and the fortunes can turn on a knife edge with any business. >> so i think you could you could obviously fairly argue that unethical to that it's unethical to profiteer, but i don't know enough about capitalism base whether or not that's actually what they're doing . what they're doing. >> but ben, we the state capitalism, baby, the state subsidises a lot of farmers who make goods that then tesco sell. >> so some people would argue it's not real capitalism. and tesco is profiteering from the state, subsidising farmers. at the same time, farmers can't make any money, so we pay twice. >> is that so? that's essentially are you paying your taxes for the subsidies? >> and you for >> and then you pay for the products? not products? it's not real capitalism. what say to capitalism. what do you say to people who say that? >> i say that in part jest. but i look, these these

i mean, look, these these supermarkets, just supermarkets, it's not just supermarkets. around supermarkets, it's not just sup world (ets. around supermarkets, it's not just sup world (ets. been, around the world have been, profiteering and taking advantage of inflationary pressures, even when inflation has come down, what is it in the uk now? something like 3. they're prices or they're still hiking prices or doing shrinkflation, of course, where they reduce the size of items. so i think i'm just so past greedy corporate companies filling their boots with the cash of the little man that it doesn't surprise me anymore. and actually , i mean, that is true actually, i mean, that is true capitalism. that's the system we have lived by and abide by and instilled in this country and in the west for many decades. yeah, but hang on. >> whilst i think there might >> so whilst i think there might be argument tesco are be an argument that tesco are being little bit greedy, you being a little bit greedy, you know, notion be know, the notion that we'd be much better an alternative much better under an alternative system, know. i know you system, i don't know. i know you didn't, but the sort of didn't, but that's the sort of narrative we're heading into. and i that would be and i think that would be incredibly i mean, incredibly dangerous. i mean, let's that venezuela let's not forget that venezuela are their pets, are currently eating their pets, and that's what corbyn and that's what jeremy corbyn and that's what jeremy corbyn and would be a and owen jones said would be a good alternative for britain. >> who backed jeremy corbyn?

>> and who backed jeremy corbyn? sorry. was it a guy called keir starmer that benjamin likes ? starmer that benjamin likes? >> corbyn >> the reason jeremy corbyn won't labour mp because won't be a labour mp is because of actions of jeremy corbyn. won't be a labour mp is because of allactions of jeremy corbyn. won't be a labour mp is because of allactionshorsesemy corbyn. won't be a labour mp is because of allactionshorses thatcorbyn. won't be a labour mp is because of allactionshorses that didn't. >> all those horses that didn't die i point out that die at the i just point out that we have very competitive we have a very competitive supermarket much more so supermarket sector, much more so than most countries, and although gone in although it's gone up a lot in the last two it's much the last two years, it's much cheaper market start your cheaper than market start your own aldi. >> right emma. >> all right emma. >> all right emma. >> national theatre's >> oh, the national theatre's got spot of bother got itself in a spot of bother this and has been this week and has been criticised for putting up patronising to its patronising signs to its customers that that say this place exists to spark creativity, conversation and thought . although please don't thought. although please don't assume that other visitors and staff will necessarily agree with your point of view. so they've been criticised for effectively asking their customers to self—censor, sorry. >> self—censor. what >> self—censor. what >> so it's i mean they're being they've been criticised because this has been understood as effectively asking people to keep their views to themselves in the theatre . yeah, in the theatre.

>> so this, this poster, why would you go to the theatre to start debating each other? it's interesting. >> they put censorship alongside sparking as well. the sparking creativity as well. the two obviously hand two things obviously go hand in handin two things obviously go hand in hand in the minds of the people who run the national theatre. >> being >> but sorry, am i being completely dense? you completely dense? why would you go theatre and voice go to the theatre and voice opinions? the opinions? surely you go to the theatre sit and watch theatre and sit down and watch theatre and sit down and watch the don't you? the play, don't you? >> i you do, but i think >> i doubt you do, but i think that the reason i mean, that the reason why, i mean, this all part of the kind of babying. >> we see these signs on the tube telling how tube all the time telling us how to ourselves. they're to behave ourselves. they're basically people, basically trying to tell people, not kind, how to not just to be kind, but how to be and presumably don't be kind and presumably don't want their customers sharing their views with their with their. >> we live in such fractious times where thanks to times where people, thanks to social media, feel like they can thrust their views on everyone else and are shocked . and you've else and are shocked. and you've been when other people don't. >> i mean, of are so >> i mean, all of them are so politicised they're thrusting their the throat, but their views down the throat, but that's going watch. that's no going to watch. >> politically show is >> a politically themed show is your >> a politically themed show is youthey're all politically >> they're all politically themed benjamin. themed now, benjamin. >> you sound like >> of course you you sound like you sound awful. >> it's like, well, i was going to argument .

to say good argument. >> i was gonna say, you sound like 1930s germany sort of casting out culture and theatre. >> i mean, i'm not benjamin. >> no, i mean, i'm not benjamin. >> no, i mean, i'm not benjamin. >> i'm pro freedom of speech and expression . expression. >> that's not very 1930s germany, is it? >> quite opposite. any >> quite the opposite. any argument when you do that then any glasgow university i any who, glasgow university i want to go to now the there is a new rector of glasgow university and in his speech , his and in his speech, his introductory remarks he quoted bobby sands of the ira, who famously went on his starvation, starved himself, essentially in protest of margaret thatcher's policies in northern ireland. and frankly, i'm asking myself , and frankly, i'm asking myself, why on earth can we not find anyone to be put in university ? anyone to be put in university? liz, that isn't on the hard left. let's watch the clip . i left. let's watch the clip. i mean, the words of the immortal bobby sands . bobby sands. >> our revenge will be the laughter of our children last olivia utley xl bully .

olivia utley xl bully. >> and let's remind ourselves of what mrs. thatcher said regarding bobby sands. she said, we have the harvard. those who hated us tolerate those who threatened us and indulged those who weakened us. >> well, isn't that still timely? >> it is indeed it is indeed. >> it is indeed it is indeed. >> and we're back to the echr. >> and we're back to the echr. >> let's play that bobby sands clip so people know who i'm talking about. and so want to talking about. and so i want to end with hope. >> and in the words of the immortal bobby sands , our immortal bobby sands, our revenge will be the laughter of our children . aslef akua . our children. aslef akua. >> so, bobby sands , big ira man, >> so, bobby sands, big ira man, he's sort of almost a canonised by the ira back in northern ireland and republic. some parts of that anyway. but i actually would argue benjamin , that there would argue benjamin, that there is a real problem with really quite nasty elements , i think quite nasty elements, i think becoming quite powerful and

prominent within universities and the culture of them, dare i say, is becoming as toxic as you just described and accused emma of being, well, i think i think university rectors are usually elected, if i'm not mistaken. >> so this is probably a choice of the student body. there i think that quoting an organisation like that is clearly profoundly divisive. it could directly upsetting to could be directly upsetting to some students that may have been on end of ira on the receiving end of ira violence in their recent family history, and so it strikes me as pretty unwise. i mean, you know, if you were to take other terrorist groups and quote them, that would be a criminal offence. i think , you know, offence. and i think, you know, it's dodgy unless you're it's pretty dodgy unless you're marching whitehall marching down whitehall on a saturday afternoon. >> group? >> which terrorist group? >> which terrorist group? >> actually the >> well, i think actually the implication that, implication was actually that, you , he was this in you know, he was saying this in context going on in gaza. >> i mean, it's just extraordinary. >> but then it's so typical of our universities, isn't it, to have this sort thing going have this sort of thing going on. he's also so he's been on. and he's also so he's been appointed . as the rector, which

appointed. as the rector, which also means he has some involvement in the church. again, typical all of us. but i mean, it's just it's just absolute madness. i mean, it's not how short people's not even just how short people's memories. that. memories. it's not just that. it's upsetting. memories. it's not just that. it's upsobjectively thing >> it's objectively one thing i've fairly short i've learnt in my, fairly short life far is that of life thus far is that some of the most stupid i've ever the most stupid people i've ever met had the misfortune of met or had the misfortune of listening are academics listening to are academics and people out people with degrees coming out of haven't got of their ears. they haven't got a clue. >> well, there's no need to be mean about benjamin, but it's your turn now, ben. >> you're optimistic about my cv, on. cv, but carry on. >> so this week, i don't >> yeah. so this week, i don't know you saw, but, know if you guys saw, but, whatsapp owned parent company whatsapp owned by parent company meta aka facebook mark zuckerberg, they have reduced the age for using the app in the uk from 16 13. so, i mean, 16 uk from 16 to 13. so, i mean, 16 was bad enough. wouldn't want was bad enough. i wouldn't want my, soon be year old kid my, to soon be 16 year old kid using let alone a 13 using whatsapp, let alone a 13 year old, reports suggest that, you know, kids are being added against their will into various.

groups where there's hundreds and even thousands of members. they don't know who they are, and sexually explicit and there's sexually explicit content racist content being shared. racist jokes, as jokes, memes, etc, etc. so as a parent myself, i'm really, parent myself, i'm just really, really worried scared that really worried and scared that the like the big tech giants like facebook, meta, whatsapp are getting a grip of our kids and flooding them with awful smartphones. i think smartphones should probably banned on on should probably be banned on on argument for adults, let alone kids. no, i mean adults , i kids. no, i mean adults, i think, i think, i think, i think for children, i think under 18, i've made this argument on the show before. >> we should seriously look at restricting or banning smartphone usage, smartphone use for want to for minors. but i just want to come the point about whatsapp come on the point about whatsapp in because it's in particular, because now it's whatsapp. when we were whatsapp. but back when we were youngeh whatsapp. but back when we were younger, messenger, whatsapp. but back when we were yourl|er, messenger, whatsapp. but back when we were your! remember messenger, whatsapp. but back when we were your! remember memsnjer, and i remember having msn messenger when i was 13 and sending messages and i'm all right. so there might be no never reply. >> did they album? >> did they album? >> and people reply, actually benjamin, the point that i'm benjamin, but the point that i'm making, even if benjamin wants to me and infer to try and insult me and infer that have any that imply rather have any friends when i younger is friends when i was younger is that have been messaging that kids have been messaging each secretly

each other secretly for generations. what is generations. and what is different between msn messenger and whatsapp that makes you concerned for your children but not concerned for you? >> i use msn as well and i loved it, but the depth and scope of the internet has evolved in such a way that there's now more people there's people online. there's i mean, just amounts more just infinite amounts of more content it's content online. and also it's easier to access, not just p*rn, by way, not just like by the way, not just like vanilla . i mean, when i was vanilla p*rn. i mean, when i was a kid, the only p*rn we used to see was sodden , magazines see was like sodden, magazines down alleyway. why are they down an alleyway. why are they wet? just like it'd been raining conversation before. but now. now kids can access. sorry, emma. kids can access. >> there is a lady present right ? >> kids 7- >> kids can ? >> kids can access all 7 >> kids can access all sorts of running out of time. >> and enough about your gentleman's leisure pamphlet. >> going talk gentleman's leisure pamphlet. >> the going talk gentleman's leisure pamphlet. >> the poor going talk gentleman's leisure pamphlet. >> the poor monkeys talk gentleman's leisure pamphlet. >> the poor monkeys now. about the poor monkeys now. >> yeah, well, overworked monkeys. i'm talking monkeys. and i'm not talking about about the about us. i'm talking about the ones thailand. so peta or ones in thailand. so peta or peta , the animal rights charity, peta, the animal rights charity, has that that the coconut has warned that that the coconut milk, which has become really popular because of vegans , is

popular because of vegans, is hugely popular in the uk at the moment. they're actually breeding monkeys. they're tying them with that go them up with chains that go around their neck and their bodies, and they're taking their large front teeth out and then making them go and get the coconuts for the coconut milk that a considerable number of people in this country enjoy. i mean, those are those are happy monkeys. i assume i'm not a monkeys. i assume i'm not a monkey psychologist, but there are lots of unhappy monkeys and the question. >> emma yeah, i know, i was just going to say this. >> this reminds me of i think it was i mean, i can't remember how many years this was now, but many years ago this was now, but wasn't the, the for wasn't the, the, the hype for almond actually a almond milk actually caused a drought? it was in drought? i think it was in california. and it's just yet another i think another example. i think it's like chocolate they like tony's chocolate when they think found there think i believe they found there was anti—slavery was there an anti—slavery chocolate company, but they found alternative found all those alternative milks destroying milks are absolutely destroying the bee colonies in california. >> you've got vegans, you >> so you've got vegans, you know, with know, filling their boots with soy, boys. soy, all these soy boys. >> there's definitely a >> but there's definitely a certain about isn't there? >> yeah.

>> yeah. >> well course. >>yeah. >>weu >> well of course. yeah. and yet destroying to is that >> conclusion to draw is that vegans anyway, moving vegans are bad. anyway, moving on. no offence, jennifer, you can sit at home. still ahead. we'll be taking a grilling from you lot in five your you lot in asked five your chance to in your chance to send in your questions. to questions. go to gbnews.com/yoursay you're

gb news. welcome back. right. it's time for this . for this. >> that none of us knew that was going to happen. >> but it looks beautiful. first up, we have lynn asking ben. leo? she says, if you were prime minister, what would your five pledges be? >> scrap net zero, turn back the boats in the water, by the way. safely and humanely like australia did it. they put people in very safe lifeboat vessels and towed them back to where they came from. or

offshore sites. make offshore processing sites. make liz truss my deputy prime minister ensure p is played in school five times a week and is that four? >> that's four. yeah. >> that's four. yeah. >> clearly. clearly math five times a week i'll ditch maths. >> i was offered math and five, what am i fifth be, i don't know. i don't know, the fifth. i can't think on top of my head. probably, make gyms free for people. >> what about free speech? make gyms free for people who can't afford. >> list for people can't >> list for people who can't afford it. ill health is one of the biggest, you know, it's a scourge society than scourge on society rather than those in the park. those dodgy things in the park. >> next chris is >> all right, next up, chris is asking, can the obr bring asking, how can the obr bring down a prime minister? >> well, again, i think that's ben leo. it can't. >> that's the answer to the question. prime minister's bring down prime ministers. and liz truss herself with truss brought down herself with her bad policies doing it all too quickly. >> yeah. look she expanded the size of the state and cut taxes at the same time. >> she wasn't shrewd enough and

she their trap. but she fell into their trap. but the mean, be the obr, i mean, she'd be completely scrapped. have they got in the got a forecast right in the last, in the last 20 arade dam been going 20. >> do you know what the obr actually predict? that 350,000 people will be coming to people will be coming net to this country in jeremy, out of jeremy hunt's budget. so i think that just goes to show double it. that's all a massive it. i think that's all a massive stitch up with the but of course the rest of it. >> this is the office for budget responsibility that assesses what consequences might be responsibility that assesses wibudgets>nsequences might be responsibility that assesses wibudgets and quences might be responsibility that assesses wibudgets and quence set ight be responsibility that assesses wibudgets and quence set upt be responsibility that assesses wibudgets and quence set up bye of budgets and it was set up by george so i think if george osborne. so i think if liz truss had a problem with that, she might want to ask her colleagues at the lviv as albie of the last 14 years. >> yes. the chancellor that cut taxes and reduce the size the taxes and reduce the size of the state, able to do. wasn't able to do. >> okay edward then has >> right. okay edward then has got question alby and got a question for alby and edward says, can you please ask albie amankona what he actually believes in regarding conservative policies? believes in regarding cons

talking about things i believe in. i think we need strong borders. i think need lower borders. i think we need lower taxes. think we need taxes. i think we need a smarter, effective . smarter, more effective. >> you just have liz truss for lowering taxes. >> and about the echr hold on. >> and about the echr hold on. >> not doing more effective state that is not something liz liz was to achieve. liz truss was able to achieve. in fact, she increased the size of state. and the reason of the state. and the reason i get so angry with what liz truss did is because she has actually set back the free market conservative economics that we've set by a generation, right? >> but on the other point, you made strong borders. how do we do that while staying the do that while staying in the european do that while staying in the eurwell, actually, if we look at >> well, actually, if we look at countries like france, if we look at countries hungary , look at countries like hungary, they operate within the european court rights. but they court of human rights. but they have much tougher border policies ignore the policies because they ignore the echr rulings, which i think we should. >> don't leave it just ignore it. >> yes, it.- >> yes, i it. >> yes, i would be in favour of ignonng >> yes, i would be in favour of ignoring the echr we didn't have that discussion earlier on. i think we should be more like

france, more like hungary. i'm and i'm open to leaving the echr. but those two questions, as mentioned before, so you as i mentioned before, so you trust ignore but you trust us to ignore it, but you don't trust us to ignore it, but you dont us trust us to ignore it, but you don't us to leave it? trust us to ignore it, but you dori: us to leave it? trust us to ignore it, but you dori said us to leave it? trust us to ignore it, but you dori said ius to leave it? trust us to ignore it, but you dori said i was) leave it? trust us to ignore it, but you dori said i was opene it? trust us to ignore it, but you dori said i was open tot? trust us to ignore it, but you dori said i was open to leaving >> i said i was open to leaving the but we need clarity . the echr, but we need clarity. >> on good friday agreement >> on the good friday agreement and uk trade davey and the eu uk trade ed davey think of it, alby. i've got no idea what he. >> leader the >> he's the leader of the lib dems. those that don't know, dems. for those that don't know, because a bit of a because he is a bit of a non—entity. benjamin butterworth, scale of 1 butterworth, on a scale of 1 to 10, albie 10, how conservative is albie amankona, well, he's more conservative amankona, well, he's more cons wronge amankona, well, he's more conswrong about lot of he's wrong about a lot of things. you know, the things. but look, you know, the truth you sit here and truth is, you could sit here and carp in the corners to alby, but actually , it was that moderate actually, it was that moderate version of the conservative party that managed to get the conservatives back in government. it's the government. and it's the extremists on an 80 seat majority. it's the incompetence. it's of boris it's the incompetence of boris johnson extremism of liz johnson and the extremism of liz truss got your party of truss that has got your party of choice out of government for probably years. choice out of government for pro oh,y years. choice out of government for pro oh, 20 years. ;. choice out of government for pro oh, 20 years. you wish. >> oh, 20 years. you wish. anyway, thank very to anyway, thank you very much to our tonight. final our guest tonight. and one final message from our viewers. john says watching this debate is like observing mad hatter's like observing the mad hatter's tea well it's exactly

tea party. well it's exactly what we were going for. next up, it's the brilliant leo kearse with the. speaking of mad hatters the saturday night showdown, thank you very much for watching. see for watching. we'll see you again week. again next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather from the met office. so it's been a bit of a drier day for most of us, but there has been a few showers around. low pressure, never too far away out towards the north of the uk, but higher pressure down towards the south and the west does bring something briefly settled. there briefly more settled. and there have those around have been those showers around and continue and they will continue through much evening, much of saturday evening, pushing across pushing in from the west across parts of scotland and northern ireland, could even see ireland, and we could even see some continuing the some snow continuing across the high ground here. elsewhere, though, much though, generally turning much dner though, generally turning much drier through the evening, with those clear skies allowing temperatures to drop into the

single figures around 7 or 8 degrees across the south, but even lower further north. perhaps some frost in places. so a start across scotland, a chilly start across scotland, northern and northern northern england and northern ireland. but those showers quickly pushing in from the west again through again as we go through sunday morning and into the afternoon. further south, after a bit of a dner further south, after a bit of a drier to the morning, further south, after a bit of a drier will to the morning, further south, after a bit of a drier will be the morning, further south, after a bit of a drier will be some orning, further south, after a bit of a drier will be some sunshine there will be some sunshine through part through the first part of the day, bubbling day, but some cloud bubbling up as we could see the as well, and we could see the odd 2 showers across wales odd 1 or 2 showers across wales and into northern england. less warm on saturday. warm than we saw on saturday. highs or 15 south highs of 14 or 15 in the south and a little bit closer to average further north. monday starts widely day starts a widely showery day across showers across the uk. bands of showers push and push their way south and eastwards through monday morning, and there be morning, and then there will be some some sunnier some breaks and some sunnier spells those showers. spells between those showers. but particularly but there could be particularly heavy north a brisk heavy in the north and a brisk northwesterly it northwesterly wind will make it feel showers continue feel cooler. showers continue through the first part of next week temperatures below week with temperatures below average, but turning a little milder the half milder through the second half of week . of the week. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hi there. coming up in the saturday night showdown . saturday night showdown. apparently, it's now discrimination to offer an older person a seat. and apparently, afghanistan is the new land of the free. and this is your saturday night showdown discussing all tonight's topics , discussing all tonight's topics, my brilliant panel joining me tonight are susie kennedy, chloe dobbs, and andrew eborn. but first, let's get your latest news headlines with aaron armstrong

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